Episode 90: Why Is There So Much Violence in Our World?
Watch EpisodeWelcome [music] to Wisdom from the
Aerial View, the podcast for those who
seek to find wisdom,
meaning, [music]
and purpose in their lives. I threw
wisdom in there because why not? Good
afternoon, good morning, good evening.
Dr. Klein, how are you today?
>> Well, let's see. I think it's the
afternoon, but you always confuse me.
[laughter]
>> Yes, it's very dark out though. It's
been very cloudy.
>> Yes, it is. It's it's that time of year
where it starts to get dark a little
early and the weather changes. Gets hot,
cold, hot, cold. Yes. But here we are.
>> Here we are.
>> I wonder if if the change of seasons and
the change in the weather changes our
mood and our behavior and one of the
things you wanted to talk about today
was something that I don't know maybe
the weather affects it too. And you
wanted to talk about violence. We got
into a conversation offline about things
going on in the world and about violence
and etc etc. And so you know me, I went
into a little bit of a rabbit hole and I
looked at this thing. There's a thing
called Trinity College Dublin and I
looked this up and it was it's an old
article but it was sort of interesting
and it's um it's about why do so many
people enjoy violence?
It says death, blood and violence have
always pulled a crowd. Ancient Romans
flocked to carnage in the coliseum. In
later centuries, public executions were
big box office. In the modern era, the
film director Quenton Tarantino believes
that, and this is a quote, in movies,
violence is cool. I like it. End quote.
Many of us seem to agree with him. A
study of high grossing movies found 90%
had a segment where the main character
was involved in violence. Similarly,
most Americans enjoy horror films and
watch them several times a year. You and
I don't happen to like horror films or
violence, but it's interesting that we
Americans seem to like violence. We
enjoy it in the movies and maybe even in
life. Thoughts?
>> Oh, for sure. You know, it's I like
You've heard me say this before.
Sometimes I feel like I got off at the
wrong planet.
>> Yeah. Yeah, because so many people enjoy
violence and uh and I'm not so sure it's
just in the movies, but yes, the Roman
coliseum clearly comes to mind. That was
quite quite graphic because it was real
people getting this wasn't this wasn't
theater. This was real.
>> People are still going to bull fights,
aren't they?
>> They are. And we and we still see uh
public executions. If you let people
come, they'll come.
>> Uh you know, you had the Salem witch
trials. You people seem to flock to
this. And I will tell you that although
I I you know you know I I study human
behavior many for many years in many
ways there are things I don't get. Um
and this is one of them. And when I say
I got I got off at the wrong planet.
It's because it seems that like maybe
and I think yours also. Our DNA doesn't
really match with the with some of the
common themes we see in the world. And
so I think a lot about violence. In
fact, you've heard me say this. If I had
a magic wand,
>> Yeah.
>> and I could do one thing, uh, it would
be to eliminate violence on this planet.
In fact, the one of my books, the one
novel I wrote is about, um, this
character, Franklin Rock, whose goal it
is to fix the world and what he does,
his first mission is to eliminate
violence from the earth. I find
violence, like I said, I don't
understand it. I don't get it. You know,
my wife, you know, will watch these
Netflix series or what Hulu, whatever
it's on, and while she's doing some of
her uh creative crafts, she'll have it
on the background. I'll walk in and
somebody's getting shot, stabbed, blown
up, and I immediately [clears throat]
have to leave the room. I cannot watch
it. And I don't understand how she can.
But, you know, to her, it's just, well,
it's just a movie. It's not a big deal.
But
>> just entertainment. Entertainment.
>> I don't I think it's more than that. I
do. So, you know, just to start this
conversation off, um I think it's
anthma. I think it's uh it's a defect in
human in in our in our human uh genome
and and how it's expressed. There's
something fundamentally wrong uh in my
view with the way we look at violence.
And I real I recognize I may I might I
might be in the minority on this. I
don't really have the data, but I'm
going to guess I'm in the minority.
Maybe I'm in a very small minority, but
it doesn't really change how I feel. And
and it comes back to, you know, why
we're here, our purpose on earth, our
mission on earth. It's just it's
contrary to to all what I really feel
very strongly to be true. So, okay. So,
Quentyn Tarantino, who's a wonderful
filmmaker,
um, who has incidentally moved to
Israel, interestingly enough, but maybe
in his mind his mission is to make great
movies, etc., etc., and they're violent.
So, is his mission the wrong mission?
>> Well, I don't want to pass judgment on
Quinton Tarantino. I mean, he's, you
know, he's he's probably a great guy.
I've watched him interviewed I think I
watched him interviewed on Bill Maher
once. You know, he seems like a a good
fellow. I don't know him. I don't want
to comment on him, but and and I don't
want to criticize him because, you know,
he sees the world differently than I do.
And I don't want to sit on a pedestal
and say, well, anybody who sees it
differently than me is wrong. But I do
see violence in a different way. So,
people have often said, well, look,
we're just reflecting humanity. people
have been there have been violence among
humans since the dawn of of of man even
before you know you know um other um
primates are very violent it's not like
it's unique to humans uh you know
chimpanzees will rip their each other's
arms off I mean they're quite violent uh
so it's not unique to our particular
species of primates but it is very
troubling because we do unlike other
species we do have the ability to decide
what we want to do you know it's not
like we're without um the ability to
evaluate the world and say how do we
want to behave? We have that ability
that that that higher brain of ours
allows us to make those kind of choices
and those kind of decisions. So I don't
want to just say well you know we're
born this way humans are just meant to
be violent and we're no different than
the rest of the species and why do you
why are you making a big deal out of it?
Because for me we have a choice. It is a
choice. You do not have to be violent.
We have a lot of choices as humans
unlike other species.
We can decide how we want to behave. We
can decide what we think is right or
wrong. We we can set the standards. I
just think we set the standards
incorrectly and I think it detracts
tremendously from the value of a human
life whether you're not just being the
recipient of violence but but observing
and condoning violence. Let's let's talk
about you know to me the elephant in the
room about this. Uh this is really I
think a very critical thing which is the
Luigi G Manion issue. We've talked about
this Lu J. Manion who shot the uh United
Healthcare executive in the back
>> and killed them and killed them
>> and killed him. That's right. And he
killed him. And you would think that
everybody would be up in arms saying,
you know, just to shoot somebody because
you disagree with their with their job
or their policies, whatever, is
anathema. And yet there's a large group
of people who think, "Oh, no, he
deserved it. He Luigi did the right
thing." Of course, the easy comeback is
to say, "Okay, well, supposing somebody
somebody who who who endorses your
particular beliefs gets shot in the back
and killed." Would that be okay? You
say, they'd say, "Oh, no, no, he was
wrong." Okay. Well, now it's opinion.
What's right and what's wrong? If we
don't have an absolute standard, then we
get into a mess. And the reason is if we
don't have an absolute standard, then we
will not agree on the set of rules and
regulations by which we choose to live.
And if we don't agree on a set of rules
and regulations by which we live to
live, we have chaos. And that's where we
that's we see a lot of that in our
society right now.
>> And I want to there's two things that I
want to talk about. The first one is I
want to talk about legal violence. Legal
violence. And you and I were talking
just the other day. We both like sports.
We both like football. Football is legal
violence, is it not?
>> Oh, yeah. Keep going.
>> I mean, let's face it. We we watch it.
We know what happens. You're you're a
physician. You see what happens with
CTE. We see what happens when these the
pounding that these football players
give and take and we watch it. And now
you and I, we don't like violence. And
yet we like maybe we even love football,
legal violence. How do we square that
one?
>> Well, you and I also had a conversation
and I have felt this way for many years.
You know, you look at what happens on
any given Sunday or now or now Thursday
or Monday
>> or Monday. Yeah. Right.
>> And and that's the point. You see, we
like it so much that it's not just on
one day of the week. The And don't
forget Saturday, it's college football,
which is a whole another story we should
we should get into also. So, we've got
legal violence all the time now, almost
seven days a week.
>> Right. So, you've heard me say this. I
would be quite happy if professional
football became flag football cuz I
watch every week numerous people get
seriously injured. Just the other day a
Washington commander had a fracture of
his of his of his neck.
>> Right. So luckily he's not paralyzed. He
certainly could have been. He could have
been killed.
>> Yes.
>> But but every week somebody's going down
for one injury another. Shoulder, hand,
knee, ankle, you name it. Something.
Hip.
>> Uhhuh. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Everything. Right. But it's not
just occasionally. It's every single
game, every single week. You know, most
teams play without their quarterback for
some portion of the season. Uh, and so
when you see something like this where
the violence clearly has significant
consequences and and football, American
football, the NFL is really a game of
attrition. Who has the most healthy
bodies left at the end of the year? When
the year started, I looked at the San
Francisco 49ers. They're extremely
talented team. Right now, what happened
the last couple years? They have injury
after injury after injury and here we go
again. They're having injuries again.
>> Yes.
>> So what looks on paper is the best team
in August has nothing to do with who's
going to be in the Super Bowl because it
all depends is who gets what players how
many players on that team get injured
and lost for the season. So I would be
very happy because I don't like the
violence in football. Yes, I watch it
but do I do I love it so that I can't
wait to see it? No. It does bother me.
So if we went to we went to touch
two-hand touch or flag football, you'd
see these unbelievable athletes making
these unbelievable uh athletic
maneuvers. You know, occasionally
somebody would get hurt, but it would be
very rare and the scores would be like
62 to 59
>> and it's never going to happen. And it's
never going to happen.
>> Well, I agree with you. It's never going
to happen. But but you ask me how I feel
about this legal violence. I don't like
it. But here's the thing. The reason I
don't like it also is not just that
people So I don't like cuz people get
hurt. As a physician, the last thing I
want to see is people getting hurt.
Right. Right.
>> Or [snorts] is that right? Anybody, you
don't have to be a physician to feel
that way. But I certainly do. But most
of the time the violence is not
intentional. But sometimes it is.
Sometimes they're looking to take
somebody's head off. We see it, right?
>> That's even more troubling, right? But
the players don't like it either.
Majority of players because they know
how fragile they are and they don't
really like when another player
intentionally goes after somebody
>> because they're but for the grace of God
go that because that
>> Right. That's right. So, you know, what
you're calling legal violence, you know,
it's mostly accidental violence, but
when it is
>> Sure.
>> Okay. Well, you're right. When it's But
what I'm saying when it's intentional, I
don't like it either. So, here's why I
don't like violence. I think, and you
know, I've written about this, Enid, you
know, there are just some things, you
know, you know, there are just some
things we know. We don't know how the
heck we know them, but we just know
them, right? And I'm assuming this
happens to everybody. It certainly
happens to me. And there's I just know
that violence is a scourge on humanity.
It's a test. Can we supersede it? Are we
able to come to rise above it? So far,
obviously not, but we should. The aerial
view is so perfect for this. When you're
in the aerial view and you see this
stuff, it is so obvious that that
hurting other people. In fact, I have a
line in one of my in I think in Franklin
Rock where he's uh working with actually
working with the police and somebody
commits violence and he says says
something like um I don't understand why
people commit violence. There's simply
no gain in it. There is no gain in it.
It diminishes you. When you commit
violence, you are minimized. You are
diminished. You may not appreciate it,
but it hardens your heart. It makes you
less human, less less kind, less
generous. Of course, as you know that
since our mission is to make this
evolution from selfish to selfless, from
inward to outward focused, anything that
that takes away from that is a negative.
It's on the negative ledger. It's and so
violence is clearly that you can see
that from the aerial view. It is obvious
you you are diminished in your mission.
You are slowed down. You are detourred.
It is not healthy for the individual to
be uh to accept violence certainly to
promote violence to engage in violence
certainly it takes away it diminishes a
life the value of a life and what
diminishes value of life meaning that
you cannot possibly be successful in
your mission as long as violence is a
significant part of how you behave and
what you accept. Yeah, it's interesting.
Malcolm Gladwell, we all know he wrote
The Tipping Point. He wrote Outliers.
He's got a new book out uh about these
kinds of things. And um I I read an
interview that he did. Um
he it's a fascinating book. I I'm not
sure that I'll read it, but but one of
the questions was you've subtitled the
book The Invention of an Epidemic.
is gun violence not an epidemic? And he
wrote this. He said, "What I mean is
it's an epidemic we invented. There are
certain traits that countries have that
are inherent. The Swiss are shaped by
their geography. Jamaicans will go on
and on about how the fact that they have
no snakes. That's shapes who they are. I
don't think American criminality is
about anything inherent to the United
States. I think it's a problem that was
brought about by a wide set of very
specific choices, misapprehensions, and
errors. There's no reason why the United
States cannot have the same level of
homicide as its Western European peers
if we just choose a different direction.
And that's exactly what you're saying.
It's about choice. We make the decision
to be violent or not. Kind of
interesting. It's a very interesting
premise,
you know.
>> Oh, 100%. We have, you know, so many
things we talk about our choice.
>> Yes.
>> Right. You have a choice. That's what
differentiates us from other species. We
have a choice.
>> We don't have to accept
>> you know that it's just the way it is
that we're just born that way that we
have no options. We don't have to accept
this. We have a choice. So when I to me
violence is is is staring at it's like
you know I I always like to say God is
is testing us like okay you have you can
you can be violent you can be cruel you
can be mean you could be hurtful go
ahead see see how that works out right
yeah
>> you know if you're only living on in
this on this planet on this on this
street view meaning what's happening
every day if that's the only place you
inhabit
>> then you say well everybody everybody's
violent football's violent this is
violent that's violent it's just part of
the But if you're in the aerial view now
of a sudden you have a more of a divine
perspective in a sense you have the
ability to look at the the entire world
all of it the history of the world the
role of humanity your particular role in
the world what what your limited
lifespan means the fact you are going to
die one day uh you have this option
right to look at this and when you get
in the area you see it it becomes quite
quite obvious very quickly that violence
detracts it's a major negative you don't
have to accept it. You certainly should
not engage in it. And you and and you
don't have to accept it. You know, we
heard for years, I remember um this has
got to be 20 or more years ago, maybe 30
years ago, I don't remember. There was
these mothers, the group of mothers who
went to Congress about violence in
movies and video games and things like
that. Do you remember that?
>> Mhm. I do.
>> Right. You know, and you know, the the
argument about by the movies by the by
the entertainment industry was we're
just reflecting the way the world world
is. We're not create we're not making it
up. This happens. We're just we're just
illustrating the violence that already
occurs. And to me, that misses the point
entirely. Imagine this in it. Imagine a
world where you turned on the television
or you turned on YouTube or you looked
on Instagram or Facebook or Google or
anywhere you you wherever you you see
any kind of media and you never saw any
violence. All you saw were people
helping people, people being kind to
people, people being generous, people
being creative, people being inventive,
right? That's all you saw. And that's
what you were immersed in from the time
you were old enough to pay attention
when you were a kid. Then that would be
the world you would got accustomed to.
That would be what the norm would be.
And when something violent occurred,
you'd be you'd be shocked. You'd be
stunned. You'd be shaken out of your
boots because it'd be so out of
character of what you've seen the world
to be. Instead, we're the ex opposite.
You can't help but see violence
everywhere. every single you you open
your phone and look at anything, you're
going to see some violence within the
first five minutes. Certainly, you know,
in the movies, certainly on TV or
YouTube, whatever, you're going to see
it everywhere. Violence is everywhere.
And so, we get imu immune to it. It's
just what we expect. We That's why
people don't even get upset when they
watch it on, you know, when they watch
it. They think, "Oh, this is just a
norm." It doesn't have to be that way.
That that from the aerial view, you can
see we have options. The world doesn't
have to be that way. In fact, it's the
wrong way for it to be in my view. If
your mission is to evolve, to make this
progression where you care more about
others than you care about yourself and
you understand what your purpose is in
life, then you see how violence
detracts. So, we got this all backwards.
Those mothers were right who went to
Congress years ago. The the
entertainment industry does have a
responsibility. They could collectively
create an environment that was much more
peaceful, much more tranquil, much more
generous, much more giving. We have an
option. We have a choice. I don't want
to pass laws. I don't want to censor
people and tell people what they can do
or not do, but collectively we can make
this decision together of what we want
our world to be.
>> Well, you see, I I sort of disagree with
you. I think the option is don't watch
them. I think we have to allow
>> Well, we have to allow people to be
creative and if those are the kinds of
movies they want to do, that's fine. I
think they should. I I think that,
however,
we do have a choice. I can just turn it
off or I don't have to go to the movies
or you can watch your wife watch that
thing and you walk out of the room. I
mean that's the choice we make. I mean
it's all about choice. The other thing
that's interesting to me is that you
bring up these mothers when we are loud
enough when we have mothers against
drunk driving and we have mothers
against what if we make a stand and we
make a determination that we um are for
something or against something. We all
we all have a voice. We have to we have
to use those voices. In in Malcolm
Gladwell's book, they actually asked
him, "Do violence prevention programs in
school actually work?" This is what he
says. He said, "They do." He said, "I'm
doing a podcast now, isn't everybody,
about this project going on in Baltimore
that has had extraordinary success in
lowering the homicide rate there. It's a
kind of community level intervention
that identifies those most at risk for
homicide and reaches out to them on a
personal basis, talks to them, helps
them. These things are insanely
successful. We've known this for 30
years. Baltimore has gone in the space
of 3 years from 330 homicides to 130.
They work. There's no mystery about it.
They're hard to do, but absolutely they
work. This gets back to something you
and I have talked about for a long time.
Um, where the role of the schools, and
this is a case of violence prevention
program in schools. So, I'm assuming
then that you'd be in favor of more
violence prevention program.
>> Yes. But you're, this is, you know, how
you say I disagree with you all the
time. Well, now it's my turn. I disagree
with you. It is not enough. Like I said,
I don't want to pass any laws. I don't
want government to be involved to
determine what we can watch, what we can
write, what we create. I agree with you
on that.
>> But what what that interventional
program is telling you is that if you
create an environment where where where
violence is anathema, where violence is
discouraged, where we find a better way
to discuss, to share, to communicate, to
avoid. That's what I'm talking about.
But if you fill the airwaves with
violence everywhere you look, you're
going to have more violence. So it
should be a voluntary thing. So that
with that violence reduction we can do a
world we can do a we can do an
international violence reduction by by
lowering the volume of violence in our
world having less of it less of it in
the movies less of it on television less
of it in Netflix series less of it in
our music for sure in our music less of
it in our video games if you create an
environment with less violence you get
less violence which is what these
violence reduction programs are telling
you it works but if you but you can you
can expand this If as a society we
decide we don't that violence is an an
overall detra dist not a distraction but
a a detraction from what it is to be
human and we create a society that
focuses on the opposite of violence
we're going to get less violence. It's
not that complicated. This is what
happens. But now we have if anything
more and more and more so violence. So
if Quinton Tarantino wants to make
violent movies, I I I don't want a law
that says you can't. But I want people
to understand that that you're paying a
price for this. Our humanity, we are
paying a price. We are paying a super
high price. I'll give you another
example. We talk about guns. And you
know, you and I pretty much agree guns
are dangerous, bad in so many ways. You
know, I I get that people want to hunt.
I get people want to defend. Fine. But
but you could have everybody could have
a bazooka. Everybody could have a tank.
But if if the idea of of hurting
somebody or being violent was was was so
far out of the norm, then it wouldn't
matter. Everybody could have a nuclear
weapon. It wouldn't matter, right? The
idea being that the weapon is an is a is
a manifestation or or the the ability to
affect violence. Now, I'm with you. We
don't, you know, just in case, you know,
just in case something went violent,
we'd like the weapons to be either
absent or minimized, etc. That's true.
But the bottom line is you've got to
create a society where people don't want
to hurt each other. Where violence is is
not the norm. It's the exception. It's
what these violence programs teach these
kids in school. So we could our whole
society could be this way. So this is
why I'm so um viciferous about this.
It's troubling to me. I look at humanity
from the aerial view every single day
and I go, "Folks, we're not doing
ourselves any favor. This isn't good for
you. It's not good for your children.
It's not good for anybody. We need to
move away from this. And the less
violence we have in our media and in our
world, the less violence we will see
expressed on a daily basis. It's really
it really I don't want to say it's that
simple, but it's pretty close to that
simple.
Well, then let's talk about let's talk
about guns.
We're never going to get rid of guns.
There's no question about that. We're
never going to get rid of guns. For all
practical purposes, they will be with us
forever. We don't know how many people
in America even have guns in their
homes. We have no idea. And and if even
if we knew that, we're not going to go
into their homes and destroy them. So
that's not going to happen. So
I would love to know if anybody's ever
done a survey of people who commit
crimes using violent means. Are these
the same people are going to the movies
and watching violent movies? I wonder if
you can equate the two. I'm not sure you
can. I I don't know. If you stopped
making violent movies and we stopped
making violent television shows and
there was no violence on YouTube and Tik
Tok and all that, would in fact the
crime rates go down? I don't know.
Violence would go down. I mean, I would
tell you that you don't need a study to
prove this. We we we behave in a manner.
I'll give you an example. If you're in
if you're in um
let's say the lights the power goes out
in in a in your neighborhood, right?
>> Mhm. And so you get like, you know, five
traffic lights in a threeb block area,
right? Now there's no traffic lights. So
two things can happen. People can just
go through the traffic lights as they
will, not stop, not let anybody else go
by. They can do whatever they want. So
if you pull up, if so, if the first
people there take turns,
>> then everybody's going to take turns.
You will see it again and again and
again. If on the other hand, when you
first get there, people are just driving
through and not paying attention,
everybody will do the same thing. We are
we we become chameleons in the sense we
take on the characteristics that
surround us. If you have a world full of
violence, you're going to have violence,
more and more violence. If you have a
world where where violence is is
something that that is discouraged and
that people do do not embrace and do not
encourage, you will have less violence.
I'm not saying we're going to get rid of
every bit of it, but there is no doubt
about we are whatever we surround
ourselves with is going to be expressed
by the major major portion of the
population. It's just the way human
beings operate. So, we have a choice.
And like I said, God's watching
thinking, okay, you know, here you go
guys, it's your world. What are you
going to do?
>> Yeah.
>> You're going to treat each other well.
You're going to take care of each other.
You're going to be kind and generous.
Most people will. Or are you going to be
violent and and and uh treat your
neighbor poorly? take advantage.
That's, you know, let that's your
choice. You're humans. You get to take
choice. You're not you're a different
kind of primate. You're not stuck. You
have the ability to make a choice. We're
making in many ways some some in some
areas of our world. We make wonderful
choices. You know, United States is the
most generous country in the world
instead of in terms of charity. You know
that you've been in the nonprofit world
for your whole life. People tend to be
generous. If you if you create a world
where violence is not the norm and not
accepted, you'll see less violence.
Look, we saw it when we were growing up.
Don't you think the world's that the our
society is a bit more violent now than
when you and I were growing up?
>> Just a tad. Yeah.
>> Just a tad. Right. I remember if
somebody stabbed somebody with a knife,
that was like the biggest news ever,
right? [snorts] Sure.
>> You know, you had you had these gangs of
kids and they were like compared to
gangs now, they were nothing. They were
like, you know, jokes, you know, but you
know, the worst you'd have is getting
into a fist fight or, you know, remember
like um uh oh god um the famous show on
show on Broadway um with the Jets and
the Sharks. Um
>> it's called Westside Story.
>> Westside Story. Thank you very much.
Westside Story. I mean two gangs. What
were they doing? They were punching each
other and somebody actually stabbed
somebody. That was the worst.
>> Compare that to Juliet. Yeah.
>> Yeah. They have automatic weapons now,
right? So, and and they it be it'd be
chaos. So, I'm just saying and people
were going to listen to me and go, "Oh,
you're so naive. You don't get it."
Blah, blah, blah. I know. I get it
completely. We get to choose what kind
of world we want. If you want to live in
a world full of violence, keep keep
creating more violence. Keep creating
more violence in our media. Keep
promoting violence, you know, just make
it okay. Look, when the when we had that
that um and I don't want to get
political here, but we had that uh MMA
MME MA what you know that that wrestling
match.
>> Yeah. In the White House regarding
White. Okay. I'm thinking whether you
love Trump or hate Trump, I don't care.
>> But that's like really is that what we
wanted our society to be? We really want
that to be our society. Okay. People
like it. I get it. But it's not healthy.
It's just not healthy for the society.
That's all I'm saying. I don't want to
tell people what to do. You're not doing
yourselves any favor. You're not doing
your community any favor. You're not
doing your children any favor. And
you're not doing yourself any favor.
This will detract from your mission. you
will never you will make it much more
difficult for you to complete your
mission on in this life. It's just a bad
thing and that's why I don't like it.
That's why I don't watch it and that's
why it makes me sad to see it
proliferate in our society.
>> The one thing I will say to to
substantiate your argument several many
years ago they decided you couldn't
smoke cigarettes on television and there
would be no cigarette advertising. And
if you look at the numbers smoking in
this country went way way down.
Interestingly enough, smoking is back in
favor now. You go to the movies, more
and more people are smoking. They're
even smoking on television now. I wonder
if in fact, we're all lemmings. Well, if
they smoke on TV, it's cool. I, you
know, maybe I'll smoke. It's sort of
interesting. So, maybe your your theory
about taking the violence down a notch.
Maybe we'll stop being violent. You
Yeah, you're probably right. I don't
know. You know, I I I'm very confident,
Will. But you brought up an interesting
point. Uh, yes, we are lemmings. It's no
doubt. Yeah,
>> but memories are short,
>> very short. And especially when you're
stuck in the street view and all you see
is the street view. If you have no
larger context, you might call it
historical context or what I just even
from the aerial view to see that all
history has repeats itself, humans will
will will like a sine wave go up and
down. They won't smoke, they will smoke.
Look, I was talking to somebody the
other day who told me tattoos are are
starting to Wayne,
>> right? You can't tattoos are everywhere,
right? Whether you like tattoos or not,
this person told me no tattoos are going
are starting to wayne. Okay, I'm not
stunned because this is what happens
when in trends and and habits and you
know this is what happens, right? So,
you know, we need when it comes to when
it comes to smoking or certainly
violence, we do also need to have to get
to to have some type of historical
perspective or aerial view perspective
that let's not fall back into the same
traps we fell into before.
>> That's a good note to end on. I mean, I
think it's a really good note to end on.
We need less violence. There's no
question, but we need less violence and
um less smoking. But anyway, or maybe
less maybe even less tattoos. Anyway, I
thank you for this conversation and I'm
I'm Thank you for um having your tattoos
removed. [laughter]
Kidding. Uh I'll leave you as usual with
the last word.
Oh, I just, you know, I don't want to
sound like it like the old guy who says,
you know, get off my lawn, but um, you
know, it it's just again, it just seems
obvious to me that this is an unhealthy
way to live. And and you know, we we do
care about our fellow men and women and
children. And if we want to make a
better society, we have the choice. And
one choice we should make is to minimize
the violence as much as we can in our
society. And I'm not saying we'll live
happily ever after, but we'll have
[music] a much better shot at it.
>> I agree. And for once, my final
statement that I always make seems
[music] profound.
Peace.
>> Peace. Thank you, Enid. Always a
pleasure. And thank you everybody for
listening. [music] And we'll see you
next time.
>> Till next time.