Episode 86: What's Up With Karma?

[music]

Welcome to Wisdom from the Area View,

the podcast for those who seek to crush

their anxiety and find wisdom, wisdom,

meaning, [music] and purpose in their

lives. I use the word wisdom today, Dr.

Klein, because it's all about that,

isn't it? It's about learning. It's

about knowledge. It's about

understanding yourself. Wouldn't you

say?

I think it's about understanding your

place in the world.

>> Okay. Right. And which is probably why

you said to me, "Let's do a podcast

about karma." H that's sort of

interesting. So, you know,

>> No, no, no. I want to do a podcast about

Carmel. Carmel can't

>> Carmel. Carmel, California.

>> But we can do Karma if you want.

>> We can do Karma Chameleon. I started to

sing that before. You never heard the

song. Karma. Karma. Karma. Karma.

>> I've heard the song. I just didn't I

just couldn't go any further with it.

>> Oh, well. Okay. Well, I can. So anyway,

karma it's a it's a Sanskrit word and it

interestingly enough it it means action

or deed. Your intentions and actions

influence your future. It's often

misunderstood. The idea of karm karma

seems simple but it's not. And I'll tell

you why. Because I looked up a lot of

things about karma and and while we this

one says that it's about actions that

influence your future. Another one says

that karma is any movement of the mind

and that which it motivates. Now I'm

going to tell you a story that I read

here because it reminded me of you. This

is a man who wrote about karma. He's

really into it and he said this idea of

karma is understandable but simplistic.

We may assume that a car accident is

inherently bad and a lottery win

inherently good. But does this idea

stand up to scrutiny? It's not the case

that the same accident could befall two

people and their subjective experiences

may be entirely different, something you

always talk about. One may battle with

the accident injuries and the long

journey of rehabilitation, feeling

crushed, but another may regard the

accident as the best thing that ever

happened. Because while lying in a

hospital bed, they met the doctor who

became the love of their life. This is

karma. Interesting, isn't it? So why did

you want to talk about karma? And why do

you think I thought that was so

interesting?

>> Well, I I I can't say why you thought it

was interesting, but you can tell us why

you thought it was interesting. Why

don't Why don't we start with that? Tell

me why you thought it was interesting

about you always talked about those

kinds of things about might be good for

one person and bad for another. Is that

karma?

You know the way I I'm glad you started

with the definition of karma because of

course like many words in the English

language they have evolved. It's not the

same as the original uh concept from

cent literally many centuries ago uh you

know pre pre even previous to the Hindus

and so on and goes back to the Buddha.

So karma is uh certainly an eastern an

eastern concept uh that we've adopted in

the west and most of us uh would and

terraoca is if you behave badly bad

things are likely to happen or you get

you're going to it's what goes around

comes around that's a good one what goes

around comes around and I still you know

there's some uh a lot of discussion well

that's not really accurate but but I

think that's actually close enough

>> the question is whether it comes around

whether whether what comes around goes

around comes around in your same

lifetime. That's another question that

eastern religions talk about whether

this is how you behave in this life may

be uh may result in consequences in

future lives or what you did in past

lives create the uh situation in which

you find yourself in this life. And I

read a book recently that's quite old

but um actually I realiz it wasn't quite

as old as me but it's quite old. And uh

the book was about um a psychiatrist uh

this is a long time ago who interviewed

this woman and and helps her through her

anxieties and her phobias and they go

back and he hypnotizes her they go back

to her past lives. It's a very famous

famous book and the question is are

these past lives real?

>> [snorts]

>> uh and from his point of view there was

no way she could have known these things

if not so and there's been been many

many books and many uh uh document much

documentation throughout history of

people who have had experiences that

they relate back to their former lives

so I don't know if that's I have no idea

right so I can't tell you whether

reincarnation is real or not

>> uh I'm sure I will never knowbody can

not that I know of but you know I

certainly don't

>> you [snorts] know you know me I don't

discount count things out of hand

because there are many things we just

can't un explain. And as I've said many

times, the world is not what you think.

Anyway, so getting back to this karma,

it could be that things happened to you

in your current life as a result of

actions you took in your previous life

and actions you take in this life could

end up being um paid back or uh having

uh consequences in your next life or

future lives. We don't know. But the

idea remains the same. And you and I

both know when we watch we see these

famous people and they say something or

we do something or do something and you

and I often look at each other and go,

"Oh boy, that was a mistake because

that's coming back." Right.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. And I think if you live long

enough, uh, you've had enough experience

to get that sense that there's something

going on, that there is something to

actions that lead to consequences that

are not necessarily explicable, but we

see it. It's like one of those things we

can't explain. So many of those things

we can't explain, but we just know

there's something going on. And I think

karma is one of those. And the reason I

wanted to talk about it is because uh it

is good to keep that in mind as you go

through your daily life. It is good to

keep in mind that that not only there

are immediate consequences to you and

and whatever other people you're dealing

with by any interaction, but these

things do could have long-term

consequences and probably do have

long-term consequences. Maybe this in

this life, maybe in another life. I have

no idea. But but I think that's a very

important concept because what we're

trying to do is we want to create a

world where where people are kind to

each other. They treat each other well.

They care about each other. That whole

idea about changing the camera focus

from inward to outward from being moving

from self selfish to selfless. These are

all things that we know result in a

better society for everybody. And so the

question is how do you get people to

behave in such a manner that that others

will benefit from that but also they of

course will also benefit because as we

know doing good deeds is the greatest

source of joy. So that's where the idea

of the karma came to me is that you know

perhaps this is another mechanism

that it's worth talking about and

keeping in mind in terms of our

behaviors and the way we treat other

people. But how do we then I mean we've

been talking about this for a very long

time now about bringing more kindness

into the world certainly. Um and I guess

we're still flumxed by the fact that we

don't know how to do it. We can't do it.

How do we teach someone

and when do we start that about to be

kind? You have lots of grandkids.

Do you talk to them about the notion of

being kind and what it means and how

they do that? And if so, how that will

stay with them the rest of their lives

so that their karma becomes good karma.

How do you what do you do with your

grandchildren? How do you inculcate into

them about kindness?

>> Well, fortunately, their parents, my

children and their spouses are firm

believers in treating people kindly and

well. So, but I do I talk to them all

the time. You know, you know, little

kids,

most stuff bounces off, but a little bit

gets through. It's like they have this

membrane

>> and it looks like an imperous membrane,

but it's quite it's really not

impervious. Little bits get through,

which is why as a parent, you teach your

kids the same thing again and again and

again. They roll their eyes and they

kind of make fun of you, but you just

keep saying the same thing again and

again and one day, 20 years later, the

words come out of their mouth and you

go, "Wow." Right? So, so there are these

semi-permeable membranes. If you keep

teaching kids these things, both good

and bad, by the way, it work, you know,

cuts both ways. But if you teach them

kindness and generosity and respect uh

and you keep repeating it that makes a

difference. And also I think you have to

the only way this works is if people

think they're getting something out of

it for themselves. And the truth is you

do get something out of it for yourself.

As you and I would talk about this uh

interminably that you know good deeds

are the greatest source of joy. Treat

taking care of other people is the

greatest source of joy that you can

possibly have. And it is an addiction.

And you and I know that when you when

you try hard to help other people, the

greatest beneficiary beneficiary is

always yourself. But for kids and or

maybe people at all ages, you know,

that's an important message. Okay? If

you don't want to do it because you

think it's because you don't believe it

because it's kind of if the fact that

it's the right thing isn't sufficient,

uh, or the fact that I'm, you know, that

this is a better way to behave is

insufficient, then do it because it's

going to make you feel good. That's

fine. I don't care if people, you know,

doing it for some selfish reason. If you

treat people well for a selfish reason,

that's fine, right? That's fine. If you

give money to charity and you feel good

about it, fine. That's okay, right? I'm

glad you gave the money to uh to some

organization or another. And if you same

thing with how you treat individuals.

So, yeah, I think I think you know, it's

not just kids, but certainly with my

grandchildren, I talk about these

things. I talk back to Victor Frankle

rule all the time, right?

>> Right. there never is a chance that

they're going to see me when I don't go

Victor Frankle rule, you know, and you

know, now they know what it is. The

older ones know what it is and they kind

of, you know, they hear the words and,

you know, has it has an has an effect.

So, same thing with this karma.

>> So, let me ask you, do you think then

that there is such a thing as good karma

and bad karma?

>> Yeah, I do. I mean, I think, you know,

the reason this is an easy sell to

people when they listen to this is

because everybody's experienced it.

Everybody's seen it. You watch somebody

treat somebody ruinly or or harshly in a

situation and everybody knows, uh-oh,

uh-oh, that person just made a mistake

that's coming back at some point. And it

doesn't always come back. I mean, you

can do terrible things and live a long

life. And you know, there's never any

repercussions. Of course, the uh those

who believe in karma, believe in re not,

those who believe in reincarnation would

say, "Don't worry, you know, next life,

the one after that, it's coming back to

that person, right?" But um but we all

we see it. Everybody reacts to it.

Anybody's lived long enough, as I said,

has seen this happen, right? You know,

or somebody says, "Oh, good. That guy

got his just desserts." What does that

mean? That means that that person, he or

she behaved in a unkind, unfair, injust

manner, and one day, guess what? In

unjust manner, sorry. And one day that

comes back to uh to kind of get them

right. So, in one way or another, it's

just the way it is. It's so fascinating

to me. But the story I related and the

reason I did because it was something

you and I talked about a very long time

ago and that was um

that while something looked bad like I

was in a car accident it was a bad thing

and yet somebody else was in a car

accident it was a good thing because

they met their future spouse. So good

karma, bad karma. I mean there is that

issue. What what might be good for you

might be bad for me. And so you know I

and you've talked about that a long time

ago.

>> I think those to me are two different

things. So

>> okay,

>> you know the car accident situation. Um

you know we've talked about this

gentleman before. He's a he was a war

correspondent I think for Fox. He's

written a couple of books. His name is

Benjamin Hall.

>> He was hit by two missiles in Ukraine.

lost a an at least two limbs, uh lost an

eye,

had many many surgeries,

uh obviously survived and very very

functional now. And he would tell you

it's the best thing that ever happened

to him. And it's not often you hear

somebody saying they got hit by two

missiles, it was the best thing that

ever happened to him. But it refocused

his life. You know, hopefully it doesn't

take missiles hitting your vehicle to

refocus your life. But sometimes it

does. And he's not the only guy. I've

I've seen people who have lost limbs and

have all kinds of other what we would

consider tragic events and they they

will tell you, "Oh, no. It it that that

helped my life. That that refocused my

life. It it changed my life in a very

positive way." Most people that's not

that wouldn't be necessarily the case,

but it does. So, that's that's the car

accident thing. That's the way you you

interpret these events. And also, it

harbors back to the fact of the event

itself. The event has no intrinsic

natural value. It's how you interpret

it. So this is a great example. A car

accident, severe car accident. Almost

everybody would say bad. Car accident

bad. Right? [snorts] But there are

people who go car accident good because

I it changed me. It affected my entire

life. I see the world differently. I'm

joyous. I'm jubilant. I I I can't wait

to contribute tomorrow in any way I can.

So no no no event, no interaction, no

words have any intrinsic meaning. It's

how we interpret them. So that's one

thing. Karma to me is a is different.

It's like as if they're as if we were

existing in a theater, right? And

somebody's always watching, right? And

my my wife used to say that her mother

told her that, you know, just remember

um God's always watching you, right?

Because they came from a religious

family. God's always watching. So when

you think nobody's watching, somebody's

always watching. whe whether it's

somebody like God or something else, but

there's it our lives do seem that we're

in a theater and there is an audience of

some sort somewhere and and when you see

it that way then this whole idea of

karma is if somebody's you know maybe

not quite keeping a scorecard that's too

simplistic

>> but paying attention right so uh

the reason karma is interesting to me is

is is not because you know that guy who

did something terrible is going to get

paid back one and there will be justice

in the world. That's not why. To me,

it's a it's an opportunity to review how

you live, how you live your life. Uh

what it is to be a good person, what it

is to become a person of substance,

something we talk about all the time.

>> That's karma to you. That's what karma

is to you. I think karma is a is a way

to view that karma is to under when you

when you when you accept that there is

karma that there is some type of uh

repercussions to what you do that there

is

>> is karma your fate.

>> Well well in in a way this sense it's

like you're it's whatever fate you make.

In other words in this sense karma is

malleable. It is you can you have a you

you can you have in that sense have a

sense of controlling your karma. Behave

well probability increases that maybe

things will go well in the future.

Behave poorly, probability is it

wouldn't in this life or some other

life. We don't know. Of course, it's not

that simplistic. I said there's plenty

of people who do terrible things and

seem to skate, right? And of course, as

I said before, the explanation is no,

they only skated in this life. You know,

they're getting it on the other end. So,

who knows? I have no idea. But the point

is that to at least have an idea um and

this is where karma kind of jives with a

lot of the uh a lot of religious beliefs

that in the sense like God is watching

or a higher power is watching. It's the

same idea but it's just you know some a

lot of people don't you know believe

have a faith don't believe in a religion

or don't don't observe a religion maybe

don't believe in God or whatever. Um but

there's this other thing you don't

necessarily have to believe that to say

well still

>> there is something going on there there

are repercussions to our actions. Uh and

this again dovtales to me is what the

whole purpose of why we're here that

we're here to make this evolution to we

have this mission to evolve from selfish

to selfless from inward focused to

outward focused. That's the mission.

Karma is the um it's the accounting of

how that's going right

in that sense.

>> Tell me what you mean by that. Tell me

what you mean by that.

>> Well, I don't again I don't want to

sound too simplistic because people were

going to say, "God, you're you're you're

making life sound like a like a game."

You know, in a way, I do think it's a

game, but um but that there's an

accounting that there is some what you

do matters. How you treat people

matters. It may not be obvious.

Sometimes it's not obvious for years.

Sometimes somebody does something and

five minutes later, bang, they get paid

back, right?

>> Other times they do something terrible

and, you know, they live 90 years and

treat people like crap and have a lot of

money, whatever, and off they go and

they die and that's it, right? And

doesn't seem like there's any payback.

Doesn't seem like there's any

consequences, but who knows what comes

out. Who knows what comes next? We don't

know. But I get a sense that there is

this accounting. And the reason I say

that is only because everybody feels it

to a certain degree. Everybody has this

in in in intrinsic sense that somebody

is watching that something's going on

that there is an accounting at some

point. Everybody almost everybody feels

it

>> except people who well a couple things.

>> I'm going to give you an example.

>> Yeah. Go ahead.

>> I'm going to give you an example. Go

ahead.

>> So I have a good friend of mine who I

love to pieces. Uh he joks around. He

goes, "I'm going to hell for sure." you

know, now he's never he's not going to

hell. I mean, in a sense that, you know,

he what he thinks are bad things and you

know, in the overall scheme of things

are just these are not terrible things,

but you know, and I laugh because I

remember they were interviewing again, I

don't want to get political, but they

were interviewing Donald Trump one day

not too long ago and somebody said about

going to going to heaven. He goes, "I'm

not going to heaven." He goes, he goes,

"No way I'm going to heaven." He was

self-deprecating, right? You know, and

I'm sure he really believes that. He

probably believes I've done enough

terrible things. I'm not going to

heaven. The sense is

>> I don't believe that. He don't believe

that in the least.

>> It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

The point is that's what he said. Okay,

I don't want to get into his head, but

the point is when he when people say

things like that, it means that they

think there's an accounting. They

believe there's accounting an accounting

whether it's religious, whether it's

karma, that there's some kind of

accounting. All I don't want to say all

but the vast majority of us have this

sense intermittently throughout our

lives that there are consequences that

something's watching that we are in this

theater. So I can't explain it like most

of the things I can't explain but but

when so many people share a common uh

sens sensitivity or or or concept

there's generally some truth to it.

>> Well Steve Jobs interesting enough said

and I'm going to quote him. He said you

have to trust in something your gut,

destiny, life, karma, whatever. So to

him it was a belief system. You have to

believe in something. What do you think

about that?

>> What do you think about it?

>> Um I think he's right. I don't know what

you call it. And to me it almost doesn't

matter what you call it, but you have to

believe in something. You have to be

true to yourself and understand your

place and how you fit into the larger

scheme of things and what you're going

to do so that you're when you do fit in

you're fitting in doing the right

things. So my question to you is another

question I have where does this whole

thing fit into your perception of the

aerial view?

>> Great. So let's the word fitting in. You

know, so many people now

have a sense that they don't fit in,

>> that they're that they're alone, that

they're unique, that they are

>> either incapable or unable for whatever

reason to to to fit in, to become to

feel comfortable in their own skin. We

could say our our parents might have

said something like that. There was a so

so why is that? What's missing? And I

think that that is a very aerial view

concept that when you really try so hard

to fit in and become part of something

or feel like you belong, not I'm talking

I'm not talking about a club or a school

or a neighborhood, but just in this on

this planet, right?

>> The what what people lack is this idea

that that you're on your own individual

mission. You will interact with people

along the way and you will have the

opportunity more opportunities to grow

and to evolve the more people you

interact with or maybe not it's not a

purely a volume thing but certainly the

the level of interactions you have. The

deeper the interactions the more deep

interactions you have the more

opportunity you have to grow and you

don't have to worry about quote fitting

in. You're on a mission. So you're

you're fitting in. The fact that you are

here by definition you fit in. You're

here right? You're on this earth. You're

a human being. You have emotions. You

have feelings. You have potential. You

know, not all of us are going to be

successful in in our careers. None of us

are going to be athletic. None of us

going to be super smart. It doesn't

matter, right? But we all have a

mission. We all have the same mission,

in fact, which is to make this evolution

from selfish to selfless to inward to

outward focused. So from the aerial

view, you can see this this idea that

people fitting in or that uh being in

the in the no or being in the right club

or like we always joke around sitting at

the cool kids table at lunch in high

school. I don't even if they have a cool

if they eat lunch at high school

anymore. But the point being that this

idea of fitting in is is unnecessary

because by definition you fit in by

being here. Now just focus on what it is

you need to do. And this idea of karma

that there is an accounting for what you

do is very helpful. Well, then you say,

okay, I don't necessarily have to have a

particular faith. I don't have to

believe in any one thing except the fact

that I'm responsible for behaving the

best I can to doing the best job I can

while I'm here on this earth in whatever

way I can, mostly by how I treat other

people, interact with other people, move

the needle forward, that's all you have

to really focus about. And when you

focus on that, the rest of stuff becomes

much less important. I was talking, we

were having I had a lunch today with a

friend and you know the waitress came

over who was a woman in her 50s you know

very nice and you know you know what's

the first thing I do when I meet uh I

ask her her name so I she gives me her

name we start talking where do you live

blah blah blah and I said uh how are you

doing she said oh I feel like I'm in

hell this is a waitress right at lunch I

went

and you know she could tell she you know

she mentioned something about the

politics in the country were very

upsetting to her. Well, when the

politics of the country is so upsetting

to you, that's a signal, right? It's a

signal that that that

there's that you haven't you're not

fully

comfortable and integrated in in your

mission, right? Because those things

then become annoyances, distractions,

whatever. You can get you can do the

best to fix them, but they shouldn't

derail you, right? So, in other words,

let's say we see something that you and

I would consider unjust happening on the

news, right? We'd say, "That's terrible.

That's no way to treat people, okay? And

what I'm unlikely to do is get up and

start screaming at the television or go

outside and scream into the world." What

I'm I'm much more likely to do is

remember, okay, I need to do the best I

can, and if I can help in some way, I'll

do that, too. But it doesn't define it

doesn't define my interaction with the

world. It's just a thing. It's like uh

it's like a little spoke off the side,

right? So, you have the central hub.

You're the central hub and there are

spokes coming off. When when the spokes

become the most important thing, then

you're missing the central hub. That

tells you there's a gap. There's an

emptiness in the central hub. And how do

I know that? The first thing she said

was, "This is hell." Right now, she has

a job. She's not homeless. She has two

kids. Uh she's healthy. Um things might

not be going as well as she'd like. I

get that. But when you say it's hell,

that tells you that there's a real

problem in that central core. So that's

when you start grabbing onto the spokes.

Start screaming about the spokes.

Whatever the spoke may be. Nowadays,

there's a list of them, right? Some

political, some, you know, um, cultural

people scream and yell about the spokes.

You only scream about the spokes when

the inner core has a problem. If the

inner core is nice and solid, if you're

if that person of substance, then you

look at the problems that are they spoke

and you say, "Okay, how best can I

contribute uh to fixing this? Maybe vote

for a different person, whatever it may

be." So that's what we need people to

get to. We need them to have that solid

core so that these individual items

don't set them off and they don't look

at something because the first thing she

mentioned when I said why, she mentioned

something political which I thought was

okay. You know, I I you know, I said to

her, I said, "You understand that half

the country would agree with your point

of view and half wouldn't on this on any

particular issue." She mentioned one. I

said, "So that that's a little that

should be a clue, right?" But when that

to me, that's the spoke. You're focusing

on the spoke. There's a problem in the

core. Clearly, this woman has problems

in the core. I mean, and and maybe felt

here. I'm sitting at lunch with my good

friend and I'm feeling terrible cuz I'm

thinking, "Oh, what I really need to do

instead of eat lunch is sit down with

this woman and try and help her through

some of this stuff." Right? Not that I I

don't want to get this strong. I want to

be your savior, but I want to help. You

know, man, I always want to help

everybody. So, that's why just to wrap

to get this back to the karma when you

have a sense that you are that you

realize you're here for a mission. You

know what the mission is. You can see

from the aerial view that that

everything that's happened before is

going to happen again. I was talking

yesterday about the election of 1803

with Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. It

was brutal. It was vicious. I mean

Jefferson who we we put on a pedestal

was you know lying and cheating and you

know you know this this is what happens.

So in the aerial view you say okay the

politics of today are very similar to

the politics of 200 years ago or 10,000

years ago. It's always the same story.

It doesn't change. These things don't

change. They just cycle through. So you

so you if you have that central core

right and you and you focus on your

mission and then you realize okay

there's this thing called karma how I

behave there will be an accounting of

some sort in this life and the next life

I have no idea but the idea that there's

this accounting which we all have a

sense of is a good way to keep us to get

that core to focus on the core of who we

are and how we behave and worry less

about or not worry less but get less in

let get let let our happiness happiness

or joy or fulfillment be centered on

these little spokes of these things that

are peripheral to the central theme.

>> You know, I was thinking you're talking

about this audience and which seems to

me in many respects if you're in the

aerial view, you're the audience. You're

actually watching.

>> You're watching.

>> Yeah. And so you're right. There is

always an audience and that audience in

many respects is you.

>> Yes. And you of course because we all

know when we behave poorly, you know,

nobody has to tap you on this show. You

know what you're doing is wrong.

Everybody knows when they're doing

something wrong. You don't don't need

somebody unless you're a little kid. But

grown-ups know when they're doing

something wrong. They go, "Well, too bad

I'm doing it anyway."

>> All grown-ups. Don't do I would think

that people who commit crimes, do you

really think they know that they're

doing something wrong? And if so,

>> yeah, sure. They don't. They just don't

care. But they know. Of course they

know. They know. Unless if they're a

psychopath, maybe not. But I mean, the

average run-of-the-mill criminals Oh,

yeah. They know they're doing something

wrong. They just think they can get away

with it. They don't care. Whatever. But

they know

>> guilty and Yeah.

>> But but this whole thing about having

this sense of accounting, this sense of

karma.

>> Yeah.

>> Can to me is can be very helpful. It's

look none of these things are going to

change the world tomorrow. I get it.

>> But these are all things that if we

inculcate into especially young people

or become part of our society that and

you you go back to societies in the past

where there are small communities,

right? We didn't live in giant cities

forever. That's a relatively recent

phenomena. the last 150 years whatever

it is that we actually congregated in

large cities before that we're in small

communities you were responsible to each

other people knew you know the scarlet

letter right about adultery the point

you know that that's one of the other

sub themes is that the community you're

responsible to your community now the

rules of the community may be insane

right like witchcraft or something burn

witches but there is a sense of this

you're responsible to the community

somebody's watching you there is an

accounting but when you get out of the

large the small community into the

larger cities or the larger where you

can disappear in 8 million people right

there's still an accounting you're still

responsible you just have to recognize

that this karma thing there's a certain

truth to it there is an accounting and

like you said you can be your own

accountant to a certain degree

>> yeah and it rais me makes me think about

nowadays everything is FOMO and I

thought well what is FOMO that's the

fear of missing out

kind of an interesting concept cept that

that particularly young people they have

to be involved in something even if it

might not be giving them good karma you

might be

>> it's not even it's not only young people

>> well that's true I know us old folks you

know

>> yes but but if you have that central

core yes

>> and you and you're focused on your

mission then there's nothing to miss out

on

>> that's right and that's why

>> and from the aerial view you can see all

these things are so tangent right you

what are you missing out on right the

world series is going to come back next

year. The World Cup's coming back in

four years. A solar eclipse is coming

back. I know, but you know, you see my

point, right? These things all the

stories will repeat. You're not you're

only missing out if you if you if you

get off track on your mission. That's

how you can miss out, right? That sense

that I have to be like I like what you

said about the self-accounting. Yes, you

you are your own primary accountant, but

probably somewhere something else is

paying attention.

>> Yes, agree. I'm looking at I'm paying

attention to the clock. I'm I'm going to

end with something that I read by by

someone I never heard of, but I thought

was interesting and then I'll give you

the final word. He said, "Even if karma

doesn't exist, it's still a good idea to

treat other people as if it does."

100%. That's exactly what we're talking

about, right? I do think it exists. I

can't prove it. I just again, I think it

exists because everybody feels it,

right? But when everybody feels

something, there's generally some some

truth to it. But yes, I think that

person whoever wrote that is exactly

right. And that's how we make a better

society by by understanding that we have

we're we we're accountants in a sense.

Like you said, we're accounting for our

own behavior and [music] probably

somebody else is also.

>> I hope so. Well, with that, I will say

thank you. Um [music]

interesting conversation and I

appreciate it. I always appreciate you.

I

>> I appreciate you too and thank you all

for listening and we'll [music] see you

next time.

>> Peace.