Episode 80: Does Joy Equal Happiness?

[music]

>> Welcome to Wisdom from the Aerial View,

the podcast for those who seek

to quash their anxiety, and to find

meaning and purpose in [music] their

lives. And I do mean quash their

anxiety. Good

>> [laughter]

>> afternoon, Dr. Klein. How are you today?

>> I'm afraid you're going to quash me.

>> I'm going to quash you on a squash

[clears throat] court.

>> Yeah.

>> Now, you know, we're sitting here and

we'll tell our listeners on a really

rainy day, which is sort of nice in a

way. It's dark and rainy and whatever.

But but I got to thinking, you asked me

the other day, "What are we going to do

it on?"

And I said, "Happiness and joy." And you

said, "Well, we did one on happiness."

And yeah, we did.

And but I wanted to tell you why I

wanted to do this one. First, I want to

go back to your book, Wisdom from the

Aerial View,

which is what this podcast is all about.

And you have a chapter on sharing the

happiness of others.

And let me read from it. It says,

"Happiness

is not an externally created product.

It's a manufactured somewhere outside of

us and then imported. We make our own

happiness from the relationships we

develop and nurture and our

accomplishments. As we accumulate those,

our internal happiness factory is at

work. Like the famous Doritos commercial

imploring the viewers

to eat as many chips as one wishes,

their tagline, "Don't worry, we'll make

more." Applies equally to personal

happiness.

Relationships and accomplishments are

inexhaustible natural resources. There's

no limit to how much of both we can

acquire, and therefore how much

happiness we can self-generate,

especially when those accomplishments

involve aiding others."

Good good thoughts. Okay. So, why do I

want to do this?

Because I think there's a difference

between happiness, not only me, between

happiness and joy.

Happiness is generally a transient

emotion. It arises from favorable

conditions or experiences, such as

enjoying a meal,

just making you happy. Okay.

But then you've got joy, which is a more

profound and sustained emotional state.

It's selfless, arising from gratitude,

spiritual experiences, or helping

others.

So I really wanted to talk about the

difference between happiness and joy.

And why?

Because I had a great experience the

other day, or been having it for for a

long time now, and I and I thought about

it. I work as a volunteer in a senior

center every Friday.

And

I love it.

I've been working with the elderly for

many, many years now, but this has been

a different experience for me.

And a couple of weeks ago, one of the

seniors said to me, "You bring me such

joy."

And I thought, "No, no,

you bring me joy."

Sometimes I come there I'm not happy,

I'm in a bad mood. So that's not about

happiness, it's about joy.

And I thought, there is a very distinct

difference between happiness and joy.

And to me, joy

is the aerial view.

What say you?

>> That's a good one. I like this. Uh

again, you know, you didn't give me a

big heads-up about what you were going

to say, but which is fine, I enjoy that

more, makes me

makes me pay attention. Makes me

>> [laughter]

>> I'm generally happy. And joy So yeah,

this is a great one in it because joy is

a you know, I I give you an analogy,

we've talked about this before.

It's an analogy between

uh

crying and weeping.

So you fall down, you hit your head on a

cabinet, you you fall off your bike and

dislocate your finger. Ooh, these little

things sound very very personal. I've

done them all. Anyway, and you know, I

you know, as a as an adult you rarely

and most of us will rarely cry when we

do those things, but let's go back at

the time and say we're kids and we do

one of those things. We fall off our

bike, we did. We bang our head in

something, we did, you know, and so on.

And so what would we do? We cry. And I

have a bunch of grandchildren and as

soon as they hit the turf, you know,

they start to cry.

And that's crying, right? But, it's not

weeping. To me, this analogy that that

is that crying is to happiness

as weeping is to joy.

This is like an SAT problem. [laughter]

Remember those analogies, right?

>> Yeah, right.

>> So, crying and happiness So, you cry

Crying comes from an initial

event, something that

that scares you, traumatizes you,

injures you, whatever. But, weeping, why

do people cry, {quote} cry at super

happy uh occasions?

>> Yeah.

>> Uh the marriage of a child, the birth of

a child, whatever. There's a million

things, right?

But, that's Those are Those tears are

different than the ones from when you

fell off your bike and hurt yourself or

when you're in pain or something. They

come from a different place. I think

that's what you're getting at. Joy and

happiness come from different places.

And I you know, you've heard me say many

times, happiness is internally

manufactured.

And it comes primarily, not exclusively,

but it comes primarily from the

relationships you have and the

accomplishments you create. And there

are, you know, we talk about Arthur

Brooks, who specializes in {quote}

happiness. And you know, he has a few

other things, but the theme is generally

the same. You know, happiness is I think

he would for sure say happiness is is

manufactured from within. It does not

come from external sources. If you win

the lottery, right? Then, yeah, you

might be happy, right? But, if that's

really transient, right? Really, really

transient. If you want, you know,

happiness that's continual, repetitive,

you have to It comes from these uh

from from your internal uh happiness

factory, which the raw raw materials are

primarily things like the

accomplishments you you accrue and the

relationships you develop.

>> You know, can I just I interject

something?

>> you're turn, sure.

>> If you win the If you win the lottery,

you're happy.

But, joy comes when you figure out what

to do with that money. If you're using

that money for good,

that's joy.

>> 100%

>> whole life changes.

>> Yeah.

>> And that's what it is, happiness and

joy.

>> Yeah, I think joy, again, it's it's a

it's a deeper level of than happiness.

Just like weeping comes I always like to

say weeping comes from some central

place we can't we don't really know what

it is. It's like it comes from some

place down deep inside our souls. We

don't really know where it where it

comes from.

Um but when you see something

meaningful, I I'll give you an example.

I remember the night that Obama got

elected. I'm sure you remember that,

2008.

>> I do.

>> And there was that in many parts of the

country,

I know for I have friends who are

Republican who did not vote for Obama,

but felt a certain joy that night. It

was just something about the country

that says, "Wow, look what we just did,

right?"

>> Yep. Yep.

>> You know, even if you didn't like the

guy, whatever, it was something special.

There was And that can And you saw you

saw people weeping.

And a lot of that weeping was from this

inner place that we've done something

good. Something good has happened,

right? And it wasn't a political thing.

It wasn't, "Oh yeah, the Democrat won

and the Republican lost." It was like,

"We did something good in this country."

That's kind of the feeling. And that I

think is a moment of joy. And that's

those are tears That's weeping from from

a a deep place. So, I think you're on to

something. And I think that probably I'm

going to guess that you're what you're

getting at is we maybe we focus too much

on happiness and not enough on

that what what you will what you term

joy, that deeper meaning.

>> Yes.

I think we're all looking for that. I I

think we all want to be happy in the

moment. But the thing I think we're

seeking is joy, something from within

that's sustaining

and sustains you. It gives you We talk a

lot on this this podcast about purpose.

And I do think that the pathway to

fulfilling a joyful life is

gratitude, and giving, meaningful

relationships, and finding your purpose.

I think that's the pathway to a joyful

life, finding your purpose. And I think

that's what we've been trying to do in

this podcast through all these many

months. And And again, it gets back to

to your your philosophy of the aerial

view, how we're seeing things, not just

in the moment, not just in the street

view,

but sort of a larger context of things.

To me, that's the difference between

happiness and joy.

>> I I agree. I think And this is where the

aerial view is particularly valuable

because

if you want to have a meaningful,

purposeful life, you have to get the

whole big picture, right? Well, we live

we all live in the street view. Things

happen. Now, you and I are at the point

in our lives where

we have fewer concerns than people who

are in the right in the thick of it, who

might have who might be in the beginning

of their careers, have young children,

they're

they're going through difficult

relationships, or divorces, or whatever,

things like that, you know, so they're

right in the thick of the meat of life,

right? You and I being a little bit

older, we've done a lot of stuff, and,

you know, mostly our our issue is what

hurts today, just you know, but um

so we we have a so we've kind of gotten

out of the the the main the main event,

right?

We've moved a little bit past that.

We're still living, we're still doing

stuff, of course, but the the

difficulties we encounter now are

different. You have a a leaky skylight,

you know, I you know, I I I dislocate a

finger. These are, you know, relatively

they're annoying. Nobody likes them, but

we know many people in this country and

in this world

uh are are having a difficult time from

the moment they open their eyes every

morning,

whether it's uh trying to find enough

food to eat, a place to sleep, take care

of their kids, avoid getting

uh shot at or

uh

other- otherwise uh injured. So, it it

you know,

I I I only say that cuz I I want our

listeners to understand that we you

know, we get it. We we we're not sitting

in an ivory tower just saying everything

is great. We understand that, but

but how do you get through those times?

What what sustains you through those

times?

If you don't have the perspective of the

aerial view or the equivalent some deep

deep deep faith and I put those two in

the same category cuz they they kind of

serve a similar purpose.

I always said to you that

uh religion is a shortcut and and and

people who really have faith it's it's a

terrific thing. It really is a terrific

thing for them cuz that sustains them.

Uh but if you don't have that, it then

there is another way to get there and

that's the aerial view. To have that

perspective of of understanding

all that's going on, that all time

exists, that you can see how things

repeat both in our individual lives and

our societies. The the sine wave of of

the universe in a sense that things are

going to repeat again and again and

again.

And that most importantly, the most

important clue it all of all is that

life is finite and death is going to

come no matter who you are, right? Every

the richest you know, we talked the

other recently about uh Elon Musk

becoming the first trillionaire, which

is I always laugh cuz that's kind of a

silly statement because he's only a

trillionaire because people have decided

the companies that he's created are

worth a lot of money and they're willing

to to they want a piece of it. So, they

bid up the price. So, he doesn't have a

trillion dollars in the bank. He doesn't

have any more money in the bank today

than he did yesterday that you know, but

on paper he's worth a lot cuz people

have decided what he's done is worth a

lot. Okay.

So, but even that Elon Musk is going to

run out is going to hit the wall. He's

going to come to the end, right? And his

life will end just like the most the

poorest person on the planet. So, that

that tells you that's the biggest clue

that there is something more going on

and that is what we talk about all the

time. What you were just saying,

meaning, purpose, why we're here.

That is when you have that and you

understand your mission while you're

here,

uh

then you have that ability to carry on

through those difficult times. And

that's really where like you said so

eloquently, is that's where the joy

comes from. To be living a life and

knowing I'm here for a reason. I got

something to do. I'm going to do it and

it's going to fill me with joy. Like you

you said when you go to the senior

center. Yeah, when whenever we do things

like this, we feel great. You know that.

>> Right. Right. That's right because

you're helping someone else. I I think

when you look at it, it that they're not

joy and happiness are not not a

circumstance. They're a choice

and a practice.

You have you choose and then you

practice it. Let me ask you a personal

question.

>> that. Keep going on that.

>> What what gives you joy? What's I know

what makes you happy. Tell me what gives

you joy.

>> What gives me joy the same thing that

gives you joy. When I feel like I'm

making a positive impact on other

people's lives. So

and I look back at it

>> going to stop you. Cuz I'm going to tell

our listeners something. I'm going to

tell them I'm going to tell them

something about you.

I'll tell you.

Whenever there's something going on in

my life, whether it's medical mostly

medical, I'll

I call you. You're the first person I

call.

Why?

Because I know that your purpose in

life, what brings you the most joy, is

helping others. And I know I know this

sounds bizarre. I call you I got a

I got a swollen thumb. What am I going

to do? I'm going to give Mark some joy.

No. But who you are, your purpose,

is about

really imparting your wisdom and and and

your expertise and your love and your

joy to somebody else to make their life

better.

So I don't know what you're going to say

about your joy, but I'm going to tell

you what your joy is. Making others

lives better. Now I'll let you talk.

>> Of course.

Well, I'm

I'm very grateful that you feel that

way. It means a lot to me. That does

bring me joy. If I know that I can help

you and you

make you feel better on any level. Yeah,

that's joy. Of course. That's the thing

about being a doctor. That's why it's so

cool. That's why I loved it so much cuz

you know, it's like you it's like um

Imagine you your favorite thing is ice

cream and one day somebody says, "Hey,

would you like a job?" You go, "Yeah,

what's my job?" You're going to work in

an ice cream shop. You go, "You're

kidding. That's my favorite thing. I

love ice cream. I get to do it all day?"

Yes. So, this is what being a doctor is.

If you if if you enjoy it if you find

joy in helping others, then they're

laying it out in front of you. It's like

an ice cream shop. And all day long

people walk in and go, "I need help. I

either need a diagnosis. I need somebody

to comfort me. I need somebody to

explain something to me."

So, you get to do that all day long.

That is amazing. Now, yeah, it comes

with its shares of difficulties and

stresses and so on. But, at the end of

the day,

you know, if you've done your job

halfway right, you you should be full of

joy. You know, and then so many doctors

have said to me over the years, "You

know,

people call me for the littlest

nonsense. They call me in the middle of

the night. They call me this. It's so

for the dumbest things." And I always

have the same reaction cuz I took call

for many years. It wasn't like I never

took call. The first

Well, you know, it's during my training,

of course, but also I think for the

first 15 years of my career I took call.

So, I was on call a lot. And in those

days, you had actually go into the

hospital. So, when I was on call and

somebody called me, I was getting in the

car and going into the hospital.

So, I get call, but um

when somebody when when when somebody

calls you for help, even if you for them

it's not a stupid question. For them

it's not nothing. If they would if they

knew the answer, they wouldn't call you,

right? You have an advantage. You have a

lot more knowledge on this than they do.

So, to me what when they call you or

neighbor calls you or friend calls you

or when you call me, it's like, "Wow,

what an honor. She trusts me."

Okay, that's a big responsibility. I got

to I got to do everything I can to get

this right. And then if I if if I make a

positive impact one way or the other,

then that's a that's joy. That's that's

that's the oil well. That's the gusher,

right? Cuz that's what it's about. I

mean, and you know, we we talk about

this ad nauseam, but it's so true. And

that's why it's so crazy

when I watch what's going on in our

country and in our world. I'm thinking,

you people are screaming and yelling and

pitching a fit about your team or the

other team, whatever, you're never going

to be happy. You're never going to find

joy doing that. Whenever you see

somebody on TV on either side of an

issue screaming and yelling and jumping

up and down and threatening and being

cruel and mean, the one thing you know

is they're not Not only aren't they

happy in the moment, but they don't have

joy.

None of that causes to brings joy,

right? So, that's the mistake. We

we have the ability to manufacture our

own happiness and we have the ability,

like you said beautifully,

uh

it's a choice, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Like anger we talked about previously,

anger is a choice. Joy is a choice. How

do you want to look at the world? What

are you here for? It's temporary. Hello.

You You act as if we act as if it's

going to go on forever. No. Guaranteed

final ending. No No No season 4, right?

>> [laughter]

>> Right? This is the last season. It's one

season of this of this uh uh

>> saga

>> This saga. Thank you. Right? One season.

This is it, right? It's going to end.

Pay attention. That's telling you

something. You want joy?

It's like you know, like you said, it's

a choice.

>> It is a choice. And that's why I think

the aerial view is so important because

you can choose it or not. And also, I

keep thinking about your wife.

>> Um Me Me, too.

>> And that's a good thing.

Uh in that we got to get her to start

thinking about you. Not kidding. But

>> Good point.

>> Cuz she made a choice. No, I mean, she

has

in She's so ingrain Her faith is so

important to her. It's an important part

of her life. And I think she has chosen

joy. Of all the people I've met, and

I've met a lot of people in my, you

know, 16 years of life,

uh she's one of the most joyful people

I've I've met. It's It's not just

happiness with her. It's joy. She's

joyful about what she does. She does

these wonderful things with plants and

flowers and

what

but it's not just giving her happiness,

it's giving her joy because she takes

that She's made a choice

to take that knowledge and impart it to

others. She did that yesterday. Yes, she

did a wonderful thing at a baby shower I

not a baby shower, a wedding shower, a

bridal shower. Um she brought her joy to

those people there. I mean, it's just

It's a beautiful thing to witness

somebody else's joy, not just their own,

but to witness somebody else's. I I

think it's a great thing.

>> Well, the thing about her that is very

interesting that you brought up is that

she recognizes what you said is correct,

that it is a choice. She tells me that.

She tells her friends that. She tells

people that all the time. You have a

choice. You You can waste your time

being uh despondent or sad or uh uh feel

like a victim or whatever you want to

do.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, that's a foolish thing to do cuz

the clock is ticking, folks, right?

Don't do that.

But, she has chosen joy in everything.

This is why she never has a bad 5

minutes. She gets it. You know, it's

funny cuz you mentioned her faith. Yes,

she will tell you it's her faith, but

it's actually

it's not faith in the sense that that

some people think about it. Maybe it is.

Maybe I don't understand faith as well

as other people, but it's not like she's

going to church every weekend and, you

know,

uh she's not doing that. She is just has

this belief. But, her belief is really

that that life is finite and we're here

for a reason. And then whatever will be

will be, and you have to make the best

of it, and you're always responsible to

do the best you can.

You know, she's the original tape it and

play person. No whining. No This is a no

whining zone.

I had to learn that over over a number

of years. No whining, right? And it's so

true. And once you learn it, it's like,

"Oh my god, this is so easy." So, I

watched, you know, I'm very troubled by

what's going on

as you are in the country, and it's not

I don't I don't have you know me I don't

have a political

team, but I watch people on all both

sides or all sides just screaming and

yelling and being unhappy and feeling a

victim and complaining and blah blah

blah and you're this and you're that and

you're just

like I said, that clock is ticking.

You're missing ticking. You're missing

the point. You do what Edith says.

Choose joy. Be grateful. You know, you

have This is a one time you have it

You're on a mission. This is the thing.

I think the biggest problem we have in

in our Let's just stick with our

country. I mean, I've been in many parts

of the world as you have, but let's just

stick with our country.

You know, the reason we're so divided is

cuz we don't share a common

purpose.

We don't agree on a common purpose. If a

society does not agree on a common

purpose, then they will not agree on the

on a set of rules and regulations by

which to live. This is exactly where we

are.

Right? If you think your purpose is to

control others. If you think your

purpose is to get wealthy. If you're

thinking your purpose is to get power.

If you think your purpose is to decide

who should have what, right? Then then

that is a recipe for absolute disaster,

right? You're missing what your purpose

is. It's not that at all. If you

understand what your purpose is, and

again, you know, I always preface this I

don't want to

preach what people People don't have to

believe what I'm telling them, but we've

talked this many times. I think the

evidence points to the fact that life is

preparation, and you're here to make a

difference and help as many people as

you can to evolve from selfish to

selfless, from inward focus to outward

focus focus to become a person of

substance. If it If we agree on that,

then all of a lot of the problems get if

not go away, they get certainly

minimized. But when you don't have that,

when we're when we're when we're arguing

about, well, I get to do whatever I

want. It's a free country. I you can't

tell me what to do.

If you if that's your if that's how you

see things,

then it's about you and your individual

ability and right to do whatever the

heck you want at any time, then we will

not agree on a set of rules and

regulations. This is why we can't laws,

you know, some some jurisdictions have

laws that you and I think are absolutely

insane, right? And so because we don't

agree on a common purpose. But there is

a common purpose and that's what we need

that that should be the thing we need to

strive for that we can get people on the

same page. If we're on the same page, a

lot of stuff gets a lot better very

fast.

>> I have two thoughts that come to mind.

First, I want to talk about we could do

a whole show on when we were growing up

we said, you can't do that. This is it's

a free country. The question is it a

free country? That's another question.

And is it a free country and what who

says so? That's we could do a whole show

on that. But I want to get back to this

notion of cuz I say this every week. For

those who wish to find meaning and

purpose in their lives.

Um tell me the difference between

meaning and purpose in your mind.

>> You know, you've asked me this question

before by the way. I'm going back to the

archives.

>> I'm asking you again.

And I'm asking in the context of

happiness and joy.

Meaning and purpose.

>> Well, what I said before is that there's

a fine line between them and I'm okay

equating them. But the sentence sounds

better when you say meaning and purpose.

you. That's what I mean.

>> It's more So So but I think

uh and we've talked about it. So

purpose, which is why am I here? What's

Why am I here? Okay, we believe or we've

talked about the fact that at least I

believe that we are here to make a

difference as many people as you can to

prepare for what comes next. Meaning.

Okay, meaning says, okay, what's it all

about? What's the what's the whole point

of all this?

Well, the point of all this is to is to

take You're born, you have an X number

of years, X number of moments, let's

say, rather than years. And the meaning

of your life is

what the accumulation of all those

moments is for, right? What am I What am

I supposed to do? So, they're very very

closely intertwined. There's a subtlety

about it, but I don't think it makes a

big difference.

I think To me To me, meaning could be

happiness.

And purpose is joy. I I I I see the

difference Okay, well, that's fine. I'm

not going to disagree with you on that

cuz I I I

Yeah, that's fine. I

Totally fine.

>> I interrupt you. Go ahead. Yeah.

>> No, no, no, I always interrupt you.

What's What's new?

>> [laughter]

>> No, I think I think it's it's getting

back to what you said in the beginning

that

I love this idea of that analogy between

the difference between happiness and joy

and and

um

you know, the the similarity between

crying and weeping. They They come from

different places, right? That's the

thing. You know, we talked previously

about

You've heard me say this. The The world

is not what you think. There's another

level to this world. We talk about these

weird connections that we've had and all

the crazy things that go on that seem to

be just below the surface. Uh and I

think that's where where joy comes from.

It comes from that

sense that we have, whether it's our

soul

that our souls are connected, that we

come from something else. We just all

know. I mean, almost everybody in this

world has had that experience of why am

I here? There's something going on. It's

a little little weird. This life is not

what it appears to be.

Everybody feels that at some point. Some

people like crazy people like me spend a

lot of time thinking about it. And

normal people, you know, go about their

days, and every once in a while it pops

into their head. But it pops into

everybody's head at some time. More than

once. So, that's how we know that

there's something else going on. It's

just a universal

conscious

uh appreciation of another level to this

world that we don't appreciate with our

five senses.

>> But I guess too that that we also worry

about that too because we worry, I

think, and this is just me, I suppose,

extrapolating onto others, we worry

about what is next? What is our What

What is next? You know, we've talked

about death a lot. We We do. But But,

you know, to prepare us for what You

always talked about to prepare us for

Prepare us for what? And this is the

point I think where we we can figure out

our purpose.

But I mean, to your mind, you think it's

preparing us for something else. I'm not

I'm not there yet. I don't know that

it's

>> Well, I won't swear by it. It's what I

think, but I don't have any evidence,

you know.

>> Yeah, right. And nobody could ever have

evidence. Good way.

>> Not that we know of. Nobody has had

evidence. Which is why I try not to be

dogmatic about this. I look at the what

I call the clues and I go, "Look, you

know, we learn to the very end. We

improve to the very end where we should

be at our best in terms of our wisdom

and our

our our our our caring and our kindness.

We we we we evolve. We make this

transition from being

uh as helpless and selfish infants to

people who, like we talked about all the

time, is helping other people. But you

learn, you mature, you What is maturity?

Maturity is the acquisition of this

wisdom and experience and go, "Aha." So,

it's in like the analogy I I've used

many times about uh medical school, you

know, to become a doctor, you go to

college for 4 years and you go to

medical school for 4 years and training

is about 5 years, give or take,

depending on what your special is.

You're talking about, you know, 13, 14

years before you can do a darn thing.

And imagine if somebody said to you when

you finally finished your your training

and they said, "Okay, you're all done.

Congratulations. Now, here's a stipend.

You know, go do what you want. We're

going to pay you every month and you

don't have to do anything." And you go,

"Well, that's crazy. You You know, I did

all this work and all and and I'm

finally worth something and I don't have

to do anything with it?" Of course,

that's silly, right? You know, once you

by the time, whether it's medicine or

anything else, by the time you reach

some level of expertise, that's when

you're worth something to the to the to

the community, to your fellow men and

women and children.

So, I look at us and go, "Well, well,

you really? We go through all this, we

learn all this, we become experienced,

become wise, and we don't have to do

anything with it?" No, I don't believe

it. I don't believe it for 1 second.

That's, you know, I didn't start that

way. That's how I've ended up after just

thinking about this and looking at the

world and all the things we talk about

at, you know, all the time on this

podcast, that there's something else

that we are in preparation. And I think,

like I said, for me, heaven is not, you

know, lying on the beach and drinking a

pina colada. To me, it's whatever our

next job is. And we're preparing for

that. That That the evidence That's what

the evidence points to me.

Am I sure? Of course not. Could I be

wrong? Of course I could be wrong. I

could be It could be the dumbest thing

anybody ever said on the face of this

earth. You know, when we get to the

other side, people go, "Oh, the client,

he couldn't have gotten this wrong." I

don't think so. I'm get I'm I'm thinking

they're going to say, "Well, turns out

there really was something to all this,

and we are really preparing for

something." Who knows?

>> I think my takeaway from all this, and

why I really wanted to talk about

happiness versus joy,

uh is because, again, it gets back to

the that it's a choice. We have the

choice to make the decision of how we

really want to live our lives.

And we can be And, I might add, you can

be You can have a lot of joy, but but be

unhappy at the same time. But

unhappiness

is transient. It goes away. Joy doesn't

go away. It's something that we keep.

It's intrinsic to who we are and what we

need to do and our purpose. So, I I

think there is a difference. The reason

I wanted to do this podcast on that was

because it's cuz there is a difference,

and we need to think about that, and we

need to think about bringing more joy

into our lives.

>> So, I think because you believe choi-

choice a joy is a choice, which I agree

with you,

I think you're saying that it's

available to everybody.

>> Everybody.

Everybody. And everybody go go get it.

Go Go it. But first you're going to be

it. You've got to decide for yourself

what you want to do, and then go do it.

And be I have this philosophy of calling

I call it be the difference. It's not

make a difference, it's be the

difference.

It's what you do, what you put in.

You've got to be it. You got to make it.

You got to be it. It's got to be in your

head and in your heart and in your soul.

And then you go do it.

>> And then what do you get at the end?

What do you get out of that?

>> A pancake.

>> [laughter]

>> Oh, I set you up and I

you you didn't let me down. Right, you

get the joy you're talking about, right?

>> The joy, it's all about the joy.

>> You get the joy, right? Yeah, it's it's

it's fantastic. I think uh

I think it was a great topic. I'm so

glad you brought this up and I think

you've you're you're your your

insights on this are spot I think spot

on. It's great.

>> on a rainy day and we look I look at

this we just run out of time. And I'm

thankful that we had this conversation.

I'm joyful that I've got you in my life

and I'm happy that I have you in my

life. And I'll leave you with the final

word.

>> Well, I'm joyful that I have you in my

life and I think you're

I think at the end of this people just

need to listen to you, Enid, which is

choose joy and

uh

>> [music]

>> and again, it's not just choose

happiness, it's it's make live your life

in a way that generates that [music]

joy. And I think that that's that's uh

that's a

a universal truth.

>> [music]

>> Anyway, thank you all for listening and

we'll see you next time.

>> Peace.