Episode 78: The Strangeness of Near-Death Experiences
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>> Welcome to Wisdom from the Aerial View,
the podcast for those who wish to crush
their anxiety and to find meaning and
purpose [music] in their lives.
Hi, Dr. Klein. How are you doing today?
>> Hello, Enid. So good to see you, as
always.
>> It's good to see you.
I I have to tell our listeners that that
you wrote me a
an email and said, "This is what I want
to talk about." Usually you
know that I throw out a topic and you
know nothing about what we're going to
talk about, but you read a book that you
really were enamored with and you wanted
to talk about it. It was called In My
Time of Dying by Sebastian, I don't know
if you pronounce it Junger or Junger.
Is it Junger? Junger?
>> You know,
I think it's Junger, but I wouldn't
swear by it. It could be Junger. We
should find that out.
>> We should find out. In fact, I was going
to look it up, but I didn't because I
was too busy doing other things. But,
um, I I will tell you that the name of
the book said to me, "Hm, that's
interesting. In My Time of Dying." I
will admit to you that didn't read it. I
have no time to read it. Too busy
reading Little Women. Kidding. But, I I
was thinking about that title. It
sounded familiar to me and why did it
sound familiar?
Because in 1962,
Bob Dylan recorded a song
that was a traditional gospel blues
song. Um, it was written in um
in 1927 and it was called In My Time of
Dying.
And it goes, "Well, in my time of dying,
don't want nobody to mourn. All I want
for you to do is take my body home."
"Lord, in my time of dying, don't want
nobody to cry. All I want you to do is
take me when I die." So, it's
interesting that he wrote a book
the title of which sounds familiar to
me. But, let me begin by reading
something that you sent to me.
>> I just want to let everybody know that
you were not alive in 1927.
>> Oh, yeah, I was. I was born the year
after. [laughter]
I look good for my age.
Um,
for my age of death. But, I you you sent
me a couple of passages from the book
and I want to read one to start this
with cuz I found it fascinating.
He says in the book, "Death annihilates
us so completely that we might as well
have not lived. But without death, the
life we did live would be meaningless
because it would never end.
One of the core goals of life is
survival.
The other is meaning."
Let's talk about that. First, why this
book? Why are you so interested in this
book? And what about it makes you really
want to talk about it?
>> As you know, I
I like to say that death is the greatest
clue to the purpose of life. I'm
convinced of that.
Uh, because one of the things he in that
quote you just read is that, you know,
death erases everything or something
like that, as if we didn't live, which
is of course in in one sense completely
true because all of a sudden you're not
on any more of the records in the
jukebox of time. You're you know,
somebody searches that record way, you
know, that person's not here anymore.
What happened? Oh, you know, the you got
to go back five records. That was the
last time they were they were on a on a
record in the jukebox of time. So, in a
sense, yeah, you are erased. Of course,
the flip side of that is that you have
all those records, all those moments of
life are going on forever as we as we
discussed ad nauseam in this podcast,
but it's very very true and very
important. And so, the question is the
other part of this then is meaning,
right? So, what we that's what's the
only thing we talk about every week
here, meaning. So, he was surprised by
his near-death experience. That sounds
crazy. Everybody's surprised by their
near-death experience, but he was
surprised what it did to him. He was
surprised what he learned from it. He
was surprised he was surprised by his
reaction to it, which went on for quite
a while, by the way, when you read the
book. Um, it's it's a relatively short
book. I read it in two sittings.
Uh, I really didn't want to put it down
and it's a it's a it's a quick book to
go through, but his reaction to this
wasn't necessarily that
I have to live every moment of my life
from now on and pay careful attention
cuz I think
I mean he got some of that from that
which is what most people have when they
have
a brush with death but it was even more
than that. He got very introspective. He
got depressed for a while about it uh
cuz it's very frightening. We'll talk
about what his actual experience was and
why he felt that way but
you know, it just had he was just so
moved by the whole thing not only in in
sense of his with potential mortality
but what it what it did to bring all of
the world not just life but all the
world into a a new perspective for him
because what else do we talk about here?
The aerial view and perspective, right?
So it was all these themes kind of woven
into one book by a very excellent writer
and a very smart guy. He's this guy has
lived an amazing life. I mean he's been
a war correspondent. He's he's taken
risks that you and I would never even
think of taking. He's written a bunch of
really good books. One probably most
famous is The Perfect Storm which then
became that famous movie.
So this guy's a very smart guy an
accomplished guy a deep thinker man of
many many life experiences.
So
when somebody like that has an
experience like this and writes about
it, it's worth reading and worth paying
attention to.
>> So Tella, don't leave me in the dark
here. What what what was what happened?
>> Oh, we're out of time. I'm sorry, Janet.
I'll see you next week.
>> I'll see you. Have a good [laughter]
life. All right.
And now I'll sing. Okay.
>> So his experience was as follows.
It's a very interesting medical
condition which I'll spend
a minute on cuz it cuz I can't help it
I'm a doctor. He had something called
median arcuate ligament syndrome.
Because that means what does that mean?
So we know we have a the big blood
vessel that runs through the middle of
our body that takes the blood from the
heart down to our abdomen and to our
lower extremities. It's called the aorta
the abdominal aorta. It's a big fat
artery
and you don't want to cut that one cuz
that's the end of that. But, it also has
arteries coming off it like like like a
highway that has exits. So, you know, I
take a 95 or some big highway, you can
get off at you know, exit 8 in New
Jersey. You know, you have little exits.
And some of the exits are pretty big,
and some of them are pretty small.
So, there's a major exit called the
celiac artery, celiac axis it's actually
called, that comes off the aorta just
under your ribs. And that feeds the
blood that delivers blood to your
stomach and to your spleen and to your
liver and to part of your upper
digestive tract. It's really important.
So, there's also this little fibrous
thing called a ligament that comes down
right in front of it. And normally, it's
no big deal. But sometimes, the ligament
can the angle that the ligament creates
can literally squish squash this celiac
artery as it's coming off its off the
aorta. So, it it it kind of puts a kink
into it, and blood can't flow. When
blood can't flow through an artery,
whether it's this one or in our heart,
very common in in coronary arteries, you
develop what are called collaterals,
meaning alternative pathways for the
blood to go. So, it has to go somewhere,
and it's very clever. So, the body
creates these collateral pathways,
meaning small arteries become bigger,
veins sometimes are involved, certainly
capillary beds. But basically, the
arteries different arteries take over
the workload.
So, it's like if if 95 is closed, all of
a sudden, all the local US1 gets
crowded, all the local streets get
crowded. And that's kind of what happens
there. It's like it's like a the highway
is blocked, the cars have to go
somewhere, so they find created
alternative routes through
neighborhoods, whatever. So, that's what
happened. So, in this guy's case, one of
the arteries that got enlarged was
called the pancreatic artery, and easily
it it's one it's the artery that
supplies the pancreas.
Uh
and it gets fed through a very
convoluted loop of additional arteries.
So,
when that artery that pancreatic artery,
which wasn't used to getting a lot of
blood, over time got more and more blood
and there was a a weakness in the wall.
And eventually that weakness developed
into what's called an aneurysm. It's
kind of a weakness of the wall,
swelling, and eventually it popped. And
now he's bleeding into his abdomen.
Right?
So,
uh he's losing blood, he's losing blood.
He doesn't know. It's what happens, you
get light-headed obviously and all kinds
of crazy things happen to your
physiology cuz your body is doing all it
can to keep you alive. So, it diverts
blood from everywhere it can to make
sure your heart and your brain and your
kidneys Those are the primary organs you
really want to keep going. So, it will
sacrifice a lot of stuff to keep the
brain and the heart and the arteries
going. And the uh
um
>> kidneys
>> kidneys going. So,
so the part part of the story is what's
going on is he's experiencing is not
knowing what's happening to him and of
course he lives in the middle of
nowhere. He's not like down the street
from a major medical center. He's in
uh I think he's in Maine, he's in the
middle of Maine, somewhere like that.
He's in the middle of nowhere, right?
Basically. So, the story the first part
of the story is how he gets you know,
they get him to the hospital and then
the second part of the Then
uh is they they start working on him and
this is a super complicated thing to
treat. So, they open his abdomen, they
can't figure it out. Long story short,
um
they manage to get what's called a
catheter
into a blood vessel and do something
called embolization where you put in
these little coils and you block the
blood flow. And eventually after hours
and hours and hours of this,
it worked and that's why he's around to
write the book. But, what happens in
that time period when he's in the
hospital? So, he looks to one side of
him and he sees the doctors and the
nurses and everybody working and he
looks to the other side of him and he
sees a black pit that he's about to fall
into. And in fact, at one point he says
to the doctors, "You're losing me. Hurry
up, you're losing me." Cuz he feels
himself falling into the black pit. The
other thing that happens is he looks up
and he sees his father.
His father was a scientist, uh uh a very
secular guy but super smart guy, uh
physicist, very, very intelligent.
And uh
his father did not necessarily believe
in religion, but he couldn't explain a
lot of things. Just said to his son, you
know, Sebastian, there are things you
just can't explain with science, and
we'll leave it at that.
Uh he looks up and sees his father, and
his father's saying to him, "Look, come
with me. I'll take care of you. I got
you. It's going to be okay."
Right?
So, that was his iteration of the
near-death experience. He has this
feeling, he's talking to his father, he
sees his father. He's awake. He's not
comatose. He's awake. He's able to hear
and talk to the doctors.
And he sees that black pit. So, he's not
unconscious at this point. He's still
conscious, barely, but he's conscious.
So, this is important because he's not
in a coma, and he's having this
what could be called a hallucination,
whatever. He's awake.
Uh
and so, for him, this is an incredibly
moving experience. So, he survives. And
afterwards, he gets he goes through this
period he's a little depressed, he's
just flummoxed by the whole idea, he's
confused. He doesn't just bounce back
and go, "Hey, I think I'll write another
book." He has This has had a major
effect on him. And eventually, he does
write this book, you know, about 4 years
later, something like that.
>> And it's interesting me now, the father
was dead, right? This father wasn't
really there.
>> father was long dead. Yes.
>> there's there's a piece in the
in the book and how only people who are
about to die, and it's kind of curious,
and it talks about In fact, I wrote
myself a little note about that.
Why do the dying, and only the dying,
keep seeing the dead in the last days of
our lives? It's very interesting that
the
his father was dead, yet he saw his
father and talked to him. So, why why
during that period, as we're about to
die, or in this case, he didn't die, are
we seeing dead people? And I don't mean
to sound like a movie, but
let's discuss that. That was very
fascinating.
What is that all about?
>> Well, let's just say Let me just preface
it by nobody really knows what this is
all about.
>> Right.
>> are a zillion theories people have
>> Yeah.
>> you know, written extensively about this
for over 100 years. This is not a new
idea. So, there's a couple of
interesting things.
Now, we can separate this into the
people that think that there's something
else going on, whether it be God,
heaven, an afterlife, whatever, you
know, something else. And those people
go, "No, no, this is just science. It's
chemistry. It's neurochemistry.
This is to be expected." So, you have
these two camps, right? But nobody has
the answer.
Um
So, what's very interesting though is
that these experience of seeing uh
somebody, usually a family member, could
be a parent, it could be a sibling,
could be somebody else who you're close
to,
who you see them just befo- just in that
period when you're
hovering on death. Now, some people are
actually
clinically dead. They have no heartbeat.
Uh they're being resuscitated.
But so, the one thing they do is they
see these other people in their lives
who are most motioning to them or
talking to them saying, "Look, it's
going to be okay. Come with me. I got
this. You're going to be all right."
And it's cross-cultural. It doesn't
matter whether you This could be in any
language. It could be in any part of the
world.
There is a subset of people Most people
have near-death experiences do not have
Most people who are near death in a
situation like this do not have what we
call near-death experiences. They don't
experience floating above the bed and
seeing people. They don't experience
seeing dead people. They don't
experience it. And most people don't.
But a subset does. It's Obviously, we
have no idea why that subset does and
why the others don't. There are lots of
theories about that, but nobody knows.
But the ones that do experience it,
they're so
they have so many commonalities across
cultures, across religions, across
ethnicities. I mean, it's like really
crazy, right? And the other thing So,
some people again see dead people or
specific dead people, usually parents,
close relatives, siblings, something
like that.
The other thing is you've heard this
before, people feel like they have an
out-of-body experience. They're hovering
over the bed. They can listen to the
doctors and the nurses and technologists
talking. They as if they're And they're
at this point generally comatose.
They're generally not awake like like
Sebastian was. They're generally out of
it.
They're unresponsive, but yet they're
very wide awake in this view in their
head where they're watching it. Some
people have described This is also still
pretty weird. They describe
conversations that occur in a waiting
room.
So, they're in they're in a surgical
room or
resuscitation room in the hospital and
several rooms away with walls, multiple
walls between them, there might be a
family member somebody sitting and
crying or talking or something and they
can see from from their position their
perspective above the bed. Not only can
they hear the doctor nurses, they can
see and hear the conversation rooms
away.
>> Mhm.
>> And this has been confirmed with in
certain situations that Yeah, they do
Now, nobody knows how this happens.
Nobody knows why, but these experiences
are so They've happened so many times,
literally millions of times. It's like
there are five people in the world
who've seen this, right? It's like
somebody saw a statue and they saw the
statue move and the Virgin Mary speak to
them.
This is way different. This is very This
has happened
probably millions of times. Many I don't
know about million, but many many many
many times all over the world. A lot of
these common themes.
So, the the neuroscientists who were
the pure scientists or
skeptics, whatever you want to call
them, legitimately say, "Look,
the brain does this to at the end
because it wants to be protective and
it's a hallucination. It's a comforting
hallucination." Blah blah blah, they
have all kinds of scientific
explanations.
But they But at the end of it they're
going to say, "But we don't know." And
the people on the other side are going
to say, "Look, this happens in all
cultures all over the world. Come on,
the stories are so similar.
How do you just write this off?"
And then to be honest, they also have to
say, "But maybe the scientists are
right. Maybe this is all biochemical
because there are certain experiences
that you get similarly when you take
certain
psychedelics, whether be mushrooms or
something else."
Now, here's where I thought is very
cool. So, the scientist would say,
"Well, you see this and that's kind of
sort of proof that you can simulate
these things just by taking drugs. So,
the drugs are altering your body your
the chemistry in your brain, the
neurochemistry in your brain. And so,
that's what's happening in your death.
You have you know, your this hypoxia,
there's So, you're short of oxygen. So,
I'll use regular you're short of oxygen.
Your acid-base levels are way out of
whack. You get what's called very
acidic. All these things are happening
in your body and therefore, you get in
these chemical reactions in the brain
just like you would if you took a drug a
certain psychedelic drug.
And so, we can see that's what the
brain's doing."
And you go, "Okay, well, that makes
sense." Except for one thing.
The one thing that I would say to that
is that it depends how you look at the
brain and the human body. If you look at
the brain and the human body that is
that everything is contained within it,
meaning there is no greater
there is no greater force, there is no
higher power, there is no God, whatever
you want to call it. It's all contained
in this human form
mostly situated in the brain but not all
cuz there are hormones all over the
place that are from all over the place
and have an action. But let's just let's
just
for practical sake just say it's
centered in the brain.
And therefore, all these things that are
happening are occurring in the brain.
So, the science would say, "Yes, that's
of course. These chemicals are being
released similar to a drug-induced
stupors or state and this is what
happens and it's totally explainable."
But the other way to look at it is to
say, "Well,
it's not all incorporated in the human
brain or the human body.
The human body is a like a machine and
so, of course, it's going to react to
these stimuli
and to these situations. But
and so, anything we evaluate is going to
be evaluated through the way the brain
functions. But there still is an outside
force or another power or soul or
whatever you want to call it that is
acting through this organism. So, it can
only act through the organism. So, if
the brain isn't working or doing
something, it's going to act that way.
It can't help it. It's not It cannot
supersede the the entity or the vessel,
if you want to call it, in which it is.
So,
so it doesn't answer the question,
right? You're You're still stuck.
Are these near-death experiences and um
some type of
uh window into another world, the
afterlife, whatever comes next, what do
you want to call it, a higher power, the
essence of the universe,
>> Mhm.
>> whatever you All these things, or is it
not? Or is it just chemistry? And you
It's an At point it remains a completely
unsolvable problem. And then it becomes
people's
feelings and opinions and and that's
where we are right now. And we might be
that way. I'm not sure we're ever going
to solve this.
>> No, I One would assume it would always
be unsolvable. How would it ever solve
it? Because we don't know when you're
when you're gone, you're gone, right? I
mean, I don't know.
>> Well, we don't know what we don't know.
So, maybe there'll be some scientific
discoveries or something with AI or who
knows. You know, you don't know. You
don't know. But
>> But let me ask you So, he keeps He talks
very much about that this whole
experience taught him about the other
meaning of life, which is to find
meaning. So, what What was the outcome?
What was What did he find was his
meaning? Because I'm assuming this
happened
um in what period of time after he did
all of that exploring or when
>> Oh, yeah. This This happened around
COVID time.
>> Okay.
>> And he wrote the book 4 years later. So,
I The book came out 4 years later.
>> So, what then did he decide was his
meaning? Was he realizing that what he
was doing before was not his meaning,
but now
Okay, tell me about that.
>> think I don't think he has that from my
reading
>> Yeah.
>> of it.
Uh and I think I sent you the notes,
right? But that I took. But it At no
point did he say, "Aha, I have figured
it out."
>> Yeah, right.
>> Right? It's like he just makes him think
more and appreciate things more and
understand that there's there may be
more to the world than we than we see.
So, you know how I I always say this,
the world is not what you think.
>> Yes.
>> And I think what happened to him is that
I think at the end of this he goes,
"Holy crap, the world is not what you
think. [laughter]
This is bizarre. What does it mean? I
don't know. I'm not sure." But, you
know, it's just to him it
um
it raises all these concepts. It's
that's we did all this research. So, he
he So, a lot of things I'm quoting, he
he went out and said, "Okay, I got to
find out more about this." So, he talked
to people on near-death experience. He
talked to psychologist. He talked to
sci- neuroscientists. He talked to all
these people. I mean, he was really
digging in to figure this out. And I
don't think he doesn't walk away with
"Aha, this is why we're here. This is
the whole thing." Unlike a simpleton
like me who says, "Well, I'll tell you
why I think we're here." He doesn't
really do that, right? Um to his credit,
perhaps. But, he raises all these
questions and he It had It just had a
profound effect on him. You know, why do
we meet people? You you ask question,
"Why do we meet people who who are
important to us at at the time of our
death? What's it all about?" So, I
think, you know, I don't want to put
words in his mouth. Uh
another one of those guys I'd like to
meet and talk to. Um so far, none of
these people have called me. I can't I
don't understand it. But, anyway.
>> called me and I won't put them through
to you, so.
>> [laughter]
>> But, I'd have a wonderful conversation.
>> I don't blame you. That is a wise
decision.
>> Yeah, yeah.
>> But, I think, you know, so he doesn't
have answers. He has questions, but it
clearly moved him. I think I think for
him it like everybody else is like, you
know, if there's more going on, you got
to pay attention.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and you know, he had because of his
near-death thing, one of his good
friends was killed uh in a I think they
were in Afghanistan, another reporter.
Uh and this clearly had an effect on
him. And he was feeling guilty that why
him, not me, you know. A lot of the
people go through that kind of thing who
have been in those situations.
But, this put put everything in a little
bit of perspective. I think the the the
finite nature of life, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Uh
you know, what each of these experience
means in our life. What each moment is
worth. What that each moment counts.
I I I think he I think when you go
through something of this, it just if
you haven't had if you haven't been
thinking about it before, you're going
to be think about it then.
Uh
and some people it changes their life
completely. Uh I think for somebody like
him, it clearly
had a huge impact. I guess he will never
see the world the same. I'm sure of
that.
And in a positive way. I mean, I think
it I think it for him it's a it's
I don't think it was a negative it was a
negative experience at first cuz it just
shook him to the core. But I think
again, I don't want to put words in his
mouth, but I do think this just opened
the world to him a little bit more and
saw that God, you know, there is
there was
appears that there's something going on.
He lived it. He experienced it. He felt
it. For him, it was extremely real. I
don't think for him the the uh
uh explanation that it's just you know,
science gone wild and it's just a
chemistry experiment and it's just you
know, drug induced. I don't think that
would fly with him. I think for him, it
was so personal and so real and he was
so and he was still conscious
that that he sees he sees it a different
way.
>> But there's another line in the book
that that struck me and he said, "Even
when we are with people we love,
we are alone."
That's a very interesting line. Even
when we're with people we love, we're
alone. What did he mean by that?
>> Okay, that's a great line because and
you've heard me talk about this that
even though most of what we we need
other people in our lives, no man is an
island, John Donne, we need other
people. We all know we need other
people. But it but when you look at this
life, it is a solo journey.
Right? People will come in and out of
your life, hopefully mostly for the for
positive, some obviously for negative
ways, but people will come into your
life and go out of your life. You will
interact with lots of people, lots of
situations, but at the but at the end,
it's a solo journey. It's yours. You
have to make it what what you can. You
have to We have to learn what you can.
You have to
produce what you can, deliver what you
can.
Uh it's up to you. I think that's what
his sense was in this, but but it is
true. It is true. No man is an island,
but in the end of the day, it's your
journey. It's yours. You can't You know,
I tell parents this all time.
You can't live your kids' life.
You know, we worry about our kids and
our you know, and we think, "Oh god,
what's going to happen?" You know, and
I've certainly done my share of that.
I'm still doing it. Um, but I have to
stop myself and realize, okay, everybody
has to live their own life. Not just
because it's their own life, because
it's their journey. It's their mission.
It's a big deal. They were put on this
earth for for for an opportunity to see
what they could learn, to prepare for
what's come next. That can't You can't
do that for them. They must do that. And
I think one of the things he sensed in
this is that, "Wow, I am on my own. This
is mine and mine alone to to deal with."
Uh, I'll need help. I'll help other
people, but at the end at the end it's
mine to deal with. So, I think that's
what he's saying, which I think is uh,
100% true.
>> Yeah. And you know, you're talking about
and you you stress this all the time.
It's in your book about the most
important thing in our lives are
relationships.
And yet, and yet, in the end, we're
alone.
>> Well, the relationship
>> alone, right?
>> Yeah, but the relationships mold who we
are and they allow us to give, right?
Remember one of the theories one of the
feelings that we talk about that I think
is that we're here to give. We're here
to help as many people as you can.
That's a relationship, right? So,
>> um,
so, I don't want to confuse people.
Relationships are the most important
thing in life, but it's but it's your
life, right? It's your life that that
sets you who are having these relations,
who are interacting with people, who are
who are giving and taking from these
relationships. It's at the In the end,
it's what you do yourself. And when he's
in a situation like that, you realize,
"I'm alone here." Then he see about to
die and he sees his dad who's saying,
"Okay, I'll come help you. Come with
me." Uh, but he had that sense. This is
me. I'm it. That's all there is at this
point, right? So, the two go hand in
hand. They're not mutually exclusive.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, it's interesting how we are
afraid to discuss death, we're afraid of
death, and yet one of the all-time I
mean, in 1969, it was Dr. Elisabeth
Kübler-Ross wrote On Death and Dying.
Very popular book.
A scary book because people don't want
to think about death, and they don't
want to think about dying, but she
talked about the five stages of grief
and all of that. I mean, I'm wondering
why first of all, why are we afraid of
death?
And why are we afraid to talk about it?
You're not. You want to talk about it
all the time.
But, which leads [laughter] me Why Why
this book? Why did you decide to read
this book? And and not only did you
decide to read it, you said to me, "You
got to read this book." Why? Why this
book? What about this book made you read
it?
>> So, a very close friend of mine, um
who he and I share a perspective, well,
we don't we don't share a perspective on
the world cuz he thinks I'm sort of
crazy, and I keep saying, "Eventually,
you're going to come around and and and
buy into what I'm telling you cuz it's
going to turn out to be true." But, but
I we laugh about it. But, but in terms
of our views of life and how to treat
people and so on, we're very similar.
And we have similar likes and dislikes.
Um
and so, he sends me an email, he goes,
"Hey, you got to read this book."
He said, "I read it in no time. Said,
you got to read this book. I think
you're going to like it." Cuz he listens
to the podcast every week, so he's going
to hear this
uh at some point. And uh
I said, "Okay." When he says, "You got
You got to like this book,"
then I know I'm going to probably like
the book cuz we like similar stuff,
right?
>> Yeah.
>> You know, you know, some people will
tell me, "Oh, you got to read this
book." And I go, "Okay, I'll read it,
but I don't think I might I'm not
confident I'm going to like it." And
most of the time, I'm right. But, if you
find people who Yeah, give give an
example. If you go to If you go to a
restaurant and somebody says, "You need
to order this." And and they're like uh
carnivorous, you're going to look at
them and go, "Well, I don't eat meat."
And you know, and I don't have any some
of the same taste. So, I'm really it's
thank you for caring about me, but I'm
not going to take your recommendation
because I know we're not going to We
don't like the same things. Or if you
have a friend who has the same diet as
you we need and says, "Oh, I found this
restaurant. The salads are
unbelievable."
You'll pay attention and you might go to
salad at that place. So, it's the same
thing here. So, when he says, "You're
going to like this book." I read the
book. And that's how I got to and of
course then I said, "You have to read
this book."
It's a It's a short read. It's really
good.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> But that's how it happened.
>> Tell me
Give me something in the book that that
we have we haven't discussed that you
really want to talk about. I know you
took a lot of notes. You even sent me
some of your notes
which I think is terrific. You take
notes on things. I think it's great.
What was your lasting impression of this
whole thing? Did it sort of solidify
your view that
we are here for a purpose and that we
have to figure out what that
the end what it is. What's What is it
preparing us for?
>> You know, it it it's not so much that.
Um
you know, I was kind of look at my notes
here if there's anything else
specifically that I wanted to add cuz I
know we don't have a lot of time left.
So, I don't want to waste everybody's
time with this. But I would say um
it's just the reason it appealed to me
is because it drives with my view of the
world.
I mean, it's that it's that simple. I
mean, it's really sounds
kind of cheap and silly but uh
he doesn't come to any conclusions. I
come to conclusions. Um but he doesn't
necessarily but the whole any discussion
of this topic of death and what and what
happens after is is very appealing to me
as you know. So, you say, "Why do I like
to talk about death and why don't other
people Why people afraid of death?" So,
I It's not that I like talking about
death. I'm not afraid of death. We We've
talked about this. I'm just a teeny
teeny teeny bit curious but I can wait.
I'm not in a hurry, right? Of what
happens. Uh but but
the reason I don't worry about death is
the same stupid comment I make to my
friends and I say to them, "Do you have
lunch every day You know, you have lunch
most days?" And they go, "Yeah, of
course I have lunch." I go, "Okay, well,
you know, do you make a big deal out of
lunch?" I go They go, "No, of course
not." I go, "Why don't you make a big
deal out of lunch?" He goes, "Well,
everybody has lunch." I go, "Well,
everybody dies."
So, what are you making such a big deal
out of it? It can't be that big a deal.
And I don't mean to minimize this. It's
a big deal when people are young. It's a
big deal when people are trum you know,
die of trauma or you know, murdered or
attacked or I mean, a lot of times it's
very It's always sad. You lose somebody
you love, it's always sad. So, I don't
mean to say it's not sad when we lose
people, of course it is. You know, you
can lose a pet and you're and you're
mortified. You're you just can't
function. So, you know, and we've been
through this. So, yeah, loss is sad.
But, then you have to take it in
perspective. It was always going to be.
Nobody or no thing lives forever. This
is a temporary adventure. So, don't
Don't worry about the death part, it's
coming for everyone. It's what you do
while you're here that counts. So,
people I've seen many people do
especially This is especially true of
very rich people. They'll do anything
they can to stay alive. Why? They got a
lot to live for, right? They have
multiple houses and you know, all kinds
of things going on and they go, "Ah, I
I'm going to do every test I can to stay
alive." And I get that. But, no matter
how many tests they do, of course,
the end's going to come. And so, it's
what you do while you're here. It's not
do everything you can to live as long as
you can, it's do whatever you can to
make your life the most meaningful. How
do you do that? Become a person of
substance. Then what do you do? Then you
help as many people as you can. So, I'll
tell you I
almost every day and it's still I
haven't practiced medicine I'm still I
shouldn't say that. I'm still doing
medical things as you know with my new
with my new venture, but but I don't see
patients like I used to. I see a few,
but I don't see patients like I used to,
right? So, so my life has changed in
that regard, but every day
I either check on or get phone calls
from numerous people who have either
medical questions or who I have trying
to help or have helped or want to follow
them every day, right? So, to me, I have
a little list in my head. I I I
generally go, "Did I forget anybody
today?" Cuz I want to try and remember
as best as I can. But, the point is,
that's what I've That's what I That's
what I believe I'm here to do. I'm here
to to be helpful in any way I can to as
many people as I can. And that's the
That's the point of death. That's why
death is the number one clue. It's
telling you,
you know, the clock is ticking. The The
gun You know, the gun, but the the start
The starting gun went off a long time
ago, and you're getting You're going to
get to the finish line at some point.
You don't know where. You don't know
when. You don't know the circumstances.
But, you're going to get there for sure.
So, that's the message of death. The
message of death is live a meaningful
life.
>> That's That's beautiful. I I I look at
the clock and I see that
>> Oh, goodness.
>> we are Yeah. So, I want to just read
what I thought would have been a great
closing, and then I'll let you obviously
have the final word.
In the book, he says, "We're all on the
side of a mountain,
which is amazing,
uh
shocked by how fast it's gotten dark.
The only question is whether we're with
people we love or not. There's no other
thing. No belief or religion or faith.
There is just that. Just the knowledge
that when we finally close our eyes,
someone will be there to watch over us
as we head out into that great soaring
night."
Final word, Doc.
>> Yeah. I would say that I'm not worried
about that part.
I don't think
I I I see what he says. His dad was
there when he was about to pass. So, I
get how he feels. I look at it a little
differently. I don't I wouldn't worry
about that. I don't worry about the
about the people who who are going to be
there or not going to be there. I don't
think that's necessarily the issue. The
issue is do what you can while you're
here.
Be the best person you can be. Help as
many people as you can. The rest will
take care of itself.
>> With that, we
>> [music]
>> With those wonderful parting words,
again, the name of the book is In My
Time of Dying,
and I hope that everybody
got as much out of this today
>> [music]
>> as I did.
Thank you, Doc.
Have a good night.
>> Inna. Thank everybody for listening.
Yes, we'll see you next time.
>> Peace.