Episode 74: Follow the Leader

Welcome to Wisdom from the Aerial View, the podcast for those who want to find meaning and purpose in their lives.

Welcome, welcome, welcome Dr. Klein. How are you today?

>> Hello Enid. How are you?

>> I'm very good, thank you. Everything is good in my life.

>> You look marvelous, by the way.

>> I feel marvelous, actually.

I want to talk a little bit today because you mentioned to me that you had a topic that you want to talk about because you heard a podcast and you want to talk about it. So tell the listeners what the podcast was and then I want to tell you where I thought I I've been thinking about it and I'm probably taking a different tack than you are, but what was the podcast? What was it all about?

>> So I was listening to a a very well-known podcast in the tech industry.

I think it's actually probably crosses border to other people listening besides tech people because I think it's one of the most popular podcasts in the country which believe it or not I can't believe we're not number one yet but >> I I thought we were number one right we're closing in on it we are >> but anyway uh >> so they had um so it was a panel of of very uh well-known and in the industry tech people and they had a guest and one of the guests was Mark Benoff who was the um CEO of Salesforce which is this

gigunda uh >> multi-world you know it started off as a you know customer relations management software and it's expanded and anyway he's been extremely successful and he's a very smart guy >> you bet >> uh and he was talking and somehow in the middle of this conversation with these tech bros he started talking about um Tony Robbins you know the the the motivational speaker Tony Robbins who's tremendously popular he's quite he's quite the character he's like a little PT Barnum a little psychologist ology,

you know, he's got a whole thing. And this guy loved him. And I was really surprised. I'm thinking, "Wow, you know, I'm glad it's I mean, I have never met uh either one of these people." And I think if people who are entitled to follow and be impressed by anybody that helps them, I think that's great. But I was surprised, right? I think, boy, this guy's a a a titan of industry and has been super duper successful. It, you know, talk about being in the top 1%.

He's probably in the top 00.00001% 0000001% of the world, right? He's super successful guy. Uh, and yet he said he had this Tony Robbins really helped him, you know, get to where he is and he was praising him and, you know, so I decided, well, let me just review. I had watched any Tony Robbins stuff in a long time. I certainly not I've never paid to go to one of his seminars. Just it's not my thing and I don't I don't think I'm his target audience. But uh but I was you know so I listened to Summer and I

reviewed I said wow this is really interesting because um a I was surprised that Mark Benf was so captured by him but it really spoke to the fact that people do need guidance even very successful people feel like whether they have imposttor syndrome or they feel insecure about this or that or they're not comfortable with themselves or whatever the myriad options are for people who even successful people I thought okay this is a good thing to talk about you know if somebody like him is yearning ing for direction and focus

and help then obviously zillions of people are so that's why I thought >> this would be a good thing to talk about especially as we kind of can talk about that in relation to the aerial view.

>> Well uh so so yes you mentioned Tony Robbins and all that so I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole and I I looked looked him up. He's got a very checkered past. He's done some things in his life that are not too cool. Um, and the more I thought about it, the more I read about him, I thought, hm, why do people trust him? And then the rabbit hole that I went down was about trust.

And so I got back into our friends with the Stoics.

>> And so Stoicism, it teaches that trust must be earned rather than freely given.

The principle is rooted in the understanding that misplaced trust can lead to unnecessary suffering. And I kept thinking about trust. Why does a man like Mark Beni off or anybody trust someone who is basically a carnival barker? I don't know. But why do we trust people? We we were talking about the influencers. We're trusting these people. Who are these people? And why do we trust them? And then I kept thinking about you. You keep talking about we shouldn't trust facts because facts are not sometimes factual. So I get

thinking, oh my god, who then do we trust? And what ever happened to trust?

And why does a man like Beni off trust a man like him, Robbins? And and why did you get so, I don't know, enraptured by this whole thing? because this is a guy I don't mean to say that you trusted him. I don't mean that at all. But but but it's interesting to me that you have these people out there that people are just for whatever reason throwing so into the wind and saying I trust you.

Why? Why are we doing that?

>> Well, uh first of all, I'm not enraptured by him.

>> I like that word though.

>> Um why? Well, that's what that's what we've been really talking about off and on for since we've started this podcast is that people are searching, right?

Searching, searching, searching.

>> Yes.

>> And you know, you go, well, and you know, they'll So, why do people why do why have people historically purchased snake oil from snake oil salesman? Yes.

>> Right. That is nothing new under the sun. I mean, we go back, you know, I was thinking of like the 2,000-y old man with Mel Brooks and Cariner and and all those skits in the past of, you know, Caveman and so on, and the same stories have repeated again and again and again.

There are we talk about this all the time. So, people have been tr have been buying snake oil. Look, look at all those supplements advertised on TV or the internet or, you know, all the social media. There's 9 million kinds of supplements, right? And you and I always wondered why are people taking all these supplements? I mean, you know, some of them have some proven value, but the vast majority have not been FDA tested and have no proven value, but some hustster is saying, "Take this and you'll live to 175 and you'll be able to

dance all night." Right.

>> Yes.

>> And people So, people uh are very gullible because they're always looking for uh direction. They're looking for help.

They're looking for somebody to to help them focus and find a better direction.

>> Yeah. And that's why I I wonder about that. Why Why are we searching? Why do we not trust ourselves? Why do we trust people blindly?

>> Because we don't know how to do it.

We're guideless. We're we're we're let started on this earth. If you have great parents, you know, we talked to my wife a couple last week, two weeks ago, >> and she talked about how she had this wonderful family and the church and her community and everybody was moving in the same direction and teaching her how to be a good person and so on. But we've lost a lot of that. Uh, and I don't think there's always been a subset of the population that never had that kind of guidance. So, getting back to the

topic, why your question, why are people following these people? why they listen to either a Tony Robbins or influencer on social media, you know, which is the new big jobs. Oh, social influencer. But yeah, so why do people listen to somebody on Tik Tok or X or not X but Instagram? Why are they following these people? Why are they following Tony Robbins? Right? So it's the same story.

So I was surprised. Here was this very successful guy following Tony Robbins.

Okay. So the answer is that uh even the most successful and grounded people have some doubt and most people are neither of those. They're not super successful and super accomplished and super confident. So the less you have of any of those, the more likely you are to follow a leader to vow the pied piper, right? It's what it is. It's the same old story. And so what got me interested in this is that uh if a guy like him can be so influenced by somebody who like Tony Robbins then it is no wonder that

we are living in a society now where all kinds of conspiracy theories uh are promoted and are successful. And right now we see one of the worst conspiracy theories has resurfaced that we hoped had been at least if not buried hidden under a pile of rock and that was anti-semitism.

>> And we're seeing that at unbelievable levels now and incredible vicious language and uh you know on every level from all sorts of society. This is really bad. Again it's the same idea. You know it's the scapegoat. It's the conspiracy theory.

It's it's for people who don't have enough confidence in their own view of the world or haven't been taught the proper way to get there. So, it's easy for somebody like a Tony Robbins or any of these influence to walk right in and say, "No problem. I got you. Follow me." And it's extremely dangerous and it's extremely worrisome.

>> And I thought, >> yeah. Yeah. It's frightening.

>> It's frightening. Which led me to think, okay, what are the alternatives? what what can we offer people instead so they don't have the same problem uh that many people have had before and we see currently how do we help people avoid these scams or avoid these I don't want to call Tony Robbins a scam but avoid these uh what's the right word without being too projorative these people who want to lead them in a certain direction convince them that they have the answers how do we what's the alternative for

these people where are they to turn if if a very successful tech entrepreneur or one of the probably 50th richer people in the world is is looking for this than billions of people are looking for this.

>> Well, let me interrupt you for a second.

Look at all the books, the self-help books. Somebody writes a book about whatever and we trust that book to give us the answers. So, >> hey, I wrote a self-help book. Give me a break.

>> Not really. No, I I >> No, I did. My first book was a self-help book.

>> Oh. And how many And how many No, I never knew that. How many people read it? And how many >> About 11. I think 11. Yeah, maybe 13.

>> Of the 13, how many were helped? But anyway, keep going.

>> Everybody, all 13. I got I got emails left and right. So, >> you wrote a self-help book. That's good.

That's interesting.

>> I was my first book.

>> Well, let's talk about that. What made you think that you could do that? Let's talk about >> That's a really great question. So, I'll tell you the story. So, this is now back about 25 years ago. I think it was when I wrote my first book. So at least 20 um and I probably about 20 years and I was running my part of my medical practice and I had about 60 people who I worked with who I was responsible for in one way or the other. They were my people >> and I noticed that a large number of them there the majority were young women

young singer women. Um, some had children, some did not. Uh, and just by listening to them over the years, I realized that some of the things that you and I took for granted from that were taught by our parents and by our community somehow didn't get uh conveyed to a large subset of people. And I could see this in in the people with whom I worked and you know me, I feel very responsible for these people. I love them. And I wanted and I said, "Okay, how can I help?" because if these 30 or 40 people

are having a problem, then I'm sure there's multiply that by some gigantic factor of people who could use some help and some of the fundamental things. So, I said, I'm going to write a a book on fundamentals of it's called it was called uh what do I do now? A handbook for life. And that's what it was. It was a handbook for life. Okay, you get in this situation, here's what you do. You get in this situation, here's what you do. Very practical stuff. Uh, and you know, it wasn't like I thought that I

was some genius and I had the the market cornered on wisdom. Uh, it's just I thought I could put this in a package. I thought that might help. Uh, and I think it did help some people. Maybe 11 out of 13. I don't know exactly the right number, but so anyway, that's what happened. So, getting back. So, how did we get on the self-help book question?

And why did I jump in there? But anyway, I hope I didn't derail your thought.

>> No, no, I derailed you. I'm the one who brought up the the books because I thought hm okay but so keep going >> okay so you so people need direction so uh getting back to to where I think we can be of assistance is the aerial view >> so let's talk about that now how does that work >> if if a successful businessman is looking for some razle and detra some reason to be some explanation so Tony Robbins I looked up some of his stuff because I I'd read about it read some stuff in the past but you know his

thesis is really not complicated. He's he's basically he's a coach, you know.

He's a coach. That's what he is. And he's very uh charismatic and that's one of his his super his superpowers, I believe. Uh all power to him. I mean, I think it's great if you have that.

You're you're you're very lucky.

>> Uh and so, you know, his idea was to say people, okay, you're you know, you have to refocus your life. You're what you think about your life determines or what you think about yourself determines what's going to happen. So, you need to think a little bit more of yourself. You need to realize that you're never stuck.

You have the ability to move forward.

That if you change your emotional mindset, if you I think he calls them uh your personal states of mind or whatever it is, something like that, that if you just change that and then you clean yourself up, you exercise, you eat well, you build up your body. So you build up your body, you build up your mind, you set high standards for yourself. Uh you don't believe anything can stand in your way. You know, you focus on uh you know where you want to go. None of this is new, right? It's been talked people have

said this, but he put it in a really good package and and he says here, try this and you'll feel better and you'll be successful. So people So my thesis on this is that people who are already successful, I'll give you an example.

So, you're a sports person and we know just about every successful athlete has like a sports psychologist these days, right?

>> Right.

>> Right. That's part of their team, right?

They got a nutritionist and a and a uh and a what do you call it? A personal trainer, you know? They have all these people, right? And one of them is a sports psychologist or at least a coach, a coach, right? And they're getting their mind in order and helping them focus. Uh and so this is the same kind of thing that he's doing, right? But it really works well for people who already are accomplished. So you take a professional athlete who's already really at the top of the heap, but now they're competing against the the other

people who are in the top of the heap.

So the competition is really tough. So you need any little edge you can get to to overcome that limit that you've had about can I beat these guys, you know, can I beat these women? Are they, you know, am I good enough? You know, so you've you've conquered all the high school, college stuff before, but now you're a pro. Now you seem to get somebody to help you over the line. So these people are already super accomplished. But what about people who are not accomplished, who have not had that experience in life, who've been

super successful at one level another, this kind of coaching is not going to work. I in most people and the reason I think it's not going to work is because they don't already have the basis to believe that they can do it. It only works if you really believe that you can do it. And then having a coach to get you over the hump is important. So, what we're talking about in this podcast is not necessarily people who haven't accomplished anything, but who who understand that that there are difficulties in life and obstacles to

overcome and maybe they haven't had enough success as to believe they can do it. And this is where the aerial view comes in.

You know, it's funny because I keep thinking that the the man who really invented this whole notion of of um this was our friend Victor Frankle because remember what he said. I mean it was about that um basically you're the center of the universe. Only you can >> prevent forest fires.

>> Prevent fires. He said that they called him Smokey the uh the Holocaust survivor. But uh >> I don't I believe we're laughing about this but it's kind of funny. We can do it. we we can do it.

>> No, but when you think about it, I mean, it just and and that's why we talk about Dr. Frank a lot on on this podcast and why um it's all intertwined. And I think the beauty of of a um of these people who can go out on the on the hustings and and talk about and become gurus of things is because they're really really good public speakers. And I think that's that's the key. The key to life, it seems to me, is communication. If we can communicate the message that that you are the only thing that you're responsible for you and you're

responsible for the good in the world that you can bring to it and but but it just it seems so almost almost too simple if you will that that um these folks who can get out there and Tony Robbins he's making a lot of money there's no question about that there a lot of them Bnee Brown they're making a lot of money good for them. And I suppose if in fact you can spark something in one person, you've done a lot. And that's to me the aerial view is you're right. If if people could understand the aerial view, you don't

need to go out and listen to Tony Robbins. You can just read Mark Klein's book.

>> Well, thank you. But the reason I brought this up, >> yeah, >> is because as I said before, the professional athletes or people like Mark Boff are very successful people already have had a lot of accomplish under their belt. They're just trying to get to over the the next hump, you know, really a very high level, right? But for most people, they haven't gotten there.

So, how does the arrow view help explain this? And one of the things I thought uh when I as I investigated this over the years one of the concepts we have talked about this before but I want to bring it up again and that is how reality is created and the reason I want to bring it up because it's the key for people believing they that they are value that they have worth and they have they can make an impact on the planet and here's why the way reality is is created again I know I probably bored you to death

with this anybody else who's listening is that >> when we make a decision We release what I call a bubble into the universe. So like one of those little thought bubbles that comes out of your head in a comic book. So imagine every choice you make is a bubble. And as soon as you release that bubble, it interacts with the bubbles being coming out of the other 8 billion people on the planet.

And it gets banged around and moved around. That's why you can never predict the outcome of any choice because once that choice is released, it's out of your hands, right? you're just now being buffeted left and right, up and down by the 8 billion other balloons, bubbles that are coming from all the other people making decisions. That's why there's no such thing as a right or best decision.

>> Meaning you make what you think is the best decision, but then what happens is completely out of your control and you should let it go. So one of the side benefits that that people should understand is don't fret like crazy about a decision. You make what you think is the best most thoughtful reasonable decision and once you make it, you have no idea what's whether what's going to happen. So you can't fred over it. You just make it and you move on. Another one of my wife's many skills. But this is why. It's because

you it's because your this your choice is being buffeted by the billions of others. Okay. When you make your choice, you initiate this bubble initiates a cascade of events. So even though it's being hammered by all the other decisions, it's also having an initial effect and creating this cascade of events. The outcome again of which you cannot uh predict. So it's a combination of you make a decision or a choice. It starts this cascade of events. Then it gets banged around by all the other choices. Forget it. You have no idea

what's going to happen. It's completely unpredictable. But it has an effect on the world. That initial choice, that initial decision creates this cascade of events which is then going to affect all the people not only right next to you or in your family or in your sphere, but down the road it's going to affect people you have never heard of in places you've never seen. Right? So that's why every choice is important because it's one of those bubbles that's creating this cascade of events and interacting

with everybody else's. So the way reality works is everybody participates.

100% of the people on the planet are involved in the creation of reality.

None is more important, none is less important. We would swear that your best friend Donald Trump's decisions are more important. But in fact, when you're in the aerial view and you take the totality of time, you realize not true.

Any single decision can create a cascade of events the outcome of which you have no idea what's going to happen hours, months, years, decades, centuries later.

You just don't know. So that's enough to to should be enough to empower people to say, "Hey, I do count. I do have value.

Okay, everything I do is going to have an impact. Now I get to choose what that how I want to impact the world." So that's very empowering. The other thing, so the combination is there's no best or right choice. Don't fret. Make the best decision. and let it go and then understand that you are equally contributing to the creation of reality as everybody else. So that's why you don't really need a Tony Robbins or anybody else to tell you you have an effect on the world. The the way the world works, you know, the the

fundamentals world are already telling you that. That's the evidence. You don't need a coach to tell you that it is true and that's how the world works. So just to those two things to have a sense of uh that you know you that you are just as important as everybody else because you create reality and your and your choices are just as important. Number two is you don't have to worry about your choices. Let them go once they're gone. This is also freeing, liberating and empowering at the same time. Now you

got a shot. Now you got now you have a belief that hey I do matter. Okay, I'm not useless. I'm not worthless. I do count. And that's just the way it is.

Whether you want to count or not, you do. Right? And then if you bring in Victor Frankle which I'm glad you mentioned that you know Victor Frankle as you said talks about your own power but also in the sense that remember you have complete control of how you feel.

This is your superpower. Don't give it away. So you start to add these things together and it's a way to to not even convince people but to prove to people that this is how the world works. This is the power you have. Don't think too little of yourself. Now that you know you have this ability, now you become the athlete, the the pro who has a lot to offer and then you can move forward.

That's why I brought to my mind the whole notion of trust. Who do I trust?

And Victor Frankle trusts himself. He trusted himself. And and it's interesting to me that a guy like Beni off would trust someone like Robins. But but more important to me is why did Beni off think did do you think he thought that he didn't have value that he he didn't trust himself and therefore he turned to somebody some outside influencer if you will to find his value. I mean, it's so interesting to me that a guy like Yeah. That a guy like that. Wow.

>> It's everybody. That's the point. Even these people we put on a pedestal, >> they're telling you, right? Because if I had had a chance to talk to him to uh the CEO of Salesforce, I would say I would tell him the same thing. Look, I said, first of all, just look what you've done. But second of all, this is how the world works, >> right? Everybody's equal. Everybody has their say in the world. You have complete control of how you feel. and here's your purpose in life. Now go do things, right? And he's a very good guy.

He's very philanthropic. He's doing a lot a lot a lot of really good stuff.

Absolutely. So, you know, he's one of the on the list of people we talk about and we'd like to meet one of these days.

>> But, but that that's the point. Even somebody like him. So, what I So, this is where the aerial view is so valuable if you learn these fundamentals. We talk about the Victor Franco rule. Coolest rule of all time, right? You get to decide how you feel. You're in complete control of how you feel. So, all putting all these things together that is very empowering. Now, let's get back to your question of trust. You and I see this, I think, a little differently. So, my feeling is that if you're an adult, and

I get if you're a woman, it's a little different, but let's leave that part out for a second. Um, but I'm much more willing to trust people to take a chance because if it turns out they disappoint me, then I've really lost nothing. Then they're the they're the people who lose.

What if you know I am responsible only for my own behavior and I can only be diminished by my own misdeeds. I cannot be diminished by the misdeeds of others only by my own. So if somebody mistreats me, if I trust them and they take advantage of me or whatever, I am not diminished. They can't diminish me.

Don't give that power to anybody. Right?

Don't give the power to determine your worth or how you feel to anybody. That's yours. Victor Frankle taught us that. So if some I trust somebody and they disappoint me, okay, bad on them, not bad on me. I'm not diminished by their behavior. I'm only diminished by my only increase or diminished by my own behavior.

>> Yeah. No, I I I hear you. I I guess we don't talk about politics on this program because you won't let me. But I just want to one thing that I I am somewhat amazed by and that is how we blindly sometimes follow the leader. You know, when we were kids, it was follow the that was the whole thing. Let's follow the leader. But in this day and age, we have people on both sides of the aisle who are blindly following the leader. They're looking for something they think is there that I don't know.

And it it really stupifies me to think that we're going down that path so too often, you know.

>> So people followed Hitler.

>> Yeah, they did.

>> Right. And we think, oh, in retrospect from the from the vantage point of the late 20th century and 21st century say, well, come on. What were these people thinking? Couldn't they see that he was this horrible human being >> happening today?

>> And we're doing it again.

>> Yes, we are.

>> Right. And years ago in it, many years ago, um somebody said to me, I I was probably I'm going to guess I was in my 20s, maybe early, you know, it's a while ago. And they said to me, we're talking about um uh the repetition of history. And they said, "Do you really believe uh a Hitler could arise again or the Holocaust could arise again?" And I said, "100% it could arise again." And they said, "Do you think it could happen in this country?" And I said, "It could happen anywhere.

It could happen in this country, but I don't think it ever will." Right? And here here we are years later and holy mackerel. Right? Here we go again. So you want to know why are people following the leader? Right? It's very complex. is because a they haven't been uh educated properly. They haven't been taught properly by parents and communities and schools to understand the fundamentals that you and I talk about all the time. How you treat people, how you know what what what your purpose here is on earth to make this

evolution from selfish to selfless, from in outward focus, that we're all equal, everybody contributes equally to reality. You know, they haven't learned these really fundamental rules of life of how to treat people. And then they're susceptible because they're guideless.

They don't know where they don't have a purpose. They don't have a meaning. They don't have a target. And so somebody comes along and gives them a scapegoat and gives them a target. Boom. I'm good.

And as a actually extra added benefit, you get to belong to a club. And now you have friends and people you can share things with and talk about even though what you're talking about is cruel, heinous, and idiotic. It doesn't matter.

You're part of a club. People want to feel part of something. So it's an old story. There's nothing new under the sun here. And how did we go wrong? We went wrong because we we let our guard down.

We stop realizing that every generation has to teach the fundamentals of of of humanity to the next generation. How to treat people, why we're here, what's your purpose. And when we fail to do that and we start spending more time worrying about silly things like uh all the silly things we see in in our media and so on and we forget that our responsibility is to teach the next generation, this is what happens, >> right? We talked about this so many times. We teach the ABCs and we teach the, you know, the how to count and all

that, but we're not teaching, but at the same time, we ought to be teaching about the values. We've got to get this next generation and generations to come to to look at the world a little bit differently. viously you don't have to have the Victor Orbons of the world and the the you know all these horrible people who are doing horrible things uh and including in our own country that we've got to just stop following the leaders understand why those leaders are leaders who put them there and what we

expect of them and can we trust them?

Well, here's the thing. At at people who are more towards our end of the spectrum, it's a different animal than PE because we've seen all this. We've read, we we were educated. We went to high school and we had really good teachers. We were educated. We covered the basis. So, I'm, you know, I was amazed that people didn't know that there, you know, how many branches of government. I'm thinking, what are we teaching these kids? We're teaching them nothing. And that's the problem. So, it's it's our education, it's our

parenting, and it's our education system. And we and we've let our guard down and just assumed everything would be okay. And this goes to show you when you're not constantly focused on I don't honestly I could give a crap if people couldn't do the multiplication tables but they understood how to treat people, what life is about, what their purposes, where they find meaning. Fine. Then you can use a calculator to do the multiplication tables. But by not teaching people these fundamental kids, these fundamental things, we have a Gen

Z and others who who are so easily led astray like you said follow the wrong leader. listening to the wrong people, assuming what they hear is true. And this is where we are now. And this is very difficult to undo. This will take, if we survive this, it'll take at least another generation to get to get back to where we need to get.

>> I know. I mean, you can say, "Hey, Siri, what is four times four?" But you can't say, "Hey, Siri, what's my value?" And I mean, and that's the difference. We're living in a world now where uh things are too easy and things we're not thinking enough. I I don't know. I I'm looking at the clock. We're running out of time. I Let me end with this and then I'll let you have the last word. Again, it gets back to my boyfriend Epistthetus. The uh my third son's name is Epistitus, one of the scholars. He said, "When

someone is properly grounded in life, they shouldn't have to look outside themselves for approval." >> Of course, it's so obvious, right? And what does Victor Frankle say? You're nobody can. You're responsible. You're nobody controls how you feel. You have that superpower. Don't let anybody tell you how to feel in so many words. I It's the same story. Victor Frankl picked however you pronounce. I'd like to say I picked this because I thought that was a lot of fun. But it's the same guy. I'm sure I'm saying it wrong.

>> My son, if I want to call him Epistus, I can call him Epste.

>> I I don't know what it's I'm not saying we should look this up for next time.

But anyway, I completely agree with you.

So there you go. There you have it.

Yeah.

>> Well, it's as always it's always fun to talk to you and it makes us think. We That's what we probably ought to do more of. We ought to be we have two ears and one mouth. We ought to listen doubly and speak less.

>> We do. And I think Enid, you and I have hit on something that uh that the education of of young people of of children and young adults. This is where we've gone wrong. And >> like I said, it's probably going to take a generation. If we're fortunate enough to get through this, which I'm not sure we will, >> but uh that's that's something we should we really need to focus on doing a bit a much better job at. Anyway, >> I'm out of stuff. What about you?

Anything else?

>> I'm out of stuff. I'm out of stuff.

>> We're out of Okay. Anyway, thanks a million and uh thank you everybody for listening and we'll see you next time.

>> Peace.