Episode 67: The Search for Happiness

Welcome to wisdom from the aerial view, the podcast for those who wish to crush their anxiety and find meaning and purpose in their lives. Hello, Mark. How are you today?

Hello Enid, always good to see you.

It's always good to be seen. It's always good to see you. So let's talk about what we're going to talk about today. And you had suggested to me that I read an article by Arthur Brooks and you sent it to me and I did. And I want to talk a little bit about that today. It's called why your perfect life feels so empty. And what a great concept, isn't it? I mean, how we're feeling empty. read a little bit about what he said and then let's...

Let's do that.

take a deeper dive into this because you wanted to talk about it. And I think it's a good thing to talk about. He says, it's no secret that we're living at a time of profound unhappiness. According to the general social survey, the percentage of American adults of all ages who are not too happy about their lives more than doubled from 2000 to 2024. Young adults were hit especially hard. The percentage of American adolescents with symptoms of major depression nearly tripled from 2005 to 2019, while anxiety almost doubled. But here's the really weird part, he goes on to say. The ones suffering most are not just the down and out types, the addicts, the impoverished, the failed sons, those for whom there are obvious things that have gone wrong in their lives. On the contrary, it's also those who seem to have everything going right for them. In other words, our young and most successful strivers. I mean, just finish this because I think it's really interesting what he says. He says, again and again, people said that their life was busy, but not meaningful. That experiences and relationships felt meaningless or that they didn't know what they were meant to do in work and in life. So why is this so important? Because it's got all the things that we've been talking about. It's about happiness. It's about anxiety and it's about meaning. And we've been talking about those three things for a really long time. And in fact, you're always making fun of me because you say I'm one of the most anxious people you've ever known. Well, I'm really anxious, but you know, but those are interesting things. And I wanted to talk a little bit today about anxiety and also about happiness. Why? Why does one equate one with the other?

No, you say it.

Can't you be happy and be anxious or can't you be happy and not be anxious or can't, why is being anxious? I mean, if you're anxious, doesn't mean you're not happy, right? I'm anxious, but I'm happy. Say you.

You ask, you are, you are anxious and you are happy and you are cool and you are also cool. So you are a cool person. You've always been cool. You are the same cool person I knew all those years ago. I love this topic because it's so critically important, especially all the young people that being affected. And I love it because there's an answer. mean, it's not like, know, so and so has pancreatic cancer and there's just nothing we can do about it. This is not one of those things. This is something we can do something about.

Yes, I'm a cool cat, yeah.

When I read Arthur Brooks' article, of course, he's very famous for writing about happenings. He a book out recently, I believe. He's written a bunch of books and he's been at Harvard Business School and quite an accomplished guy. And when I read his article, I'm always interested in hearing what I have to say, but a couple of things struck me. For instance, he did say, I don't know if you remember this, but in the beginning, I think it was in the beginning, I don't remember exactly where this was.

Yes.

He says he's sure that his great grandfather, who was born in 1862, never gave these complex parts of life a single thought, right? He's also sure he never gave home to his great grandmother and said he had a panic attack. I'm pretty sure Albert is wrong.

I'm pretty sure that great grandfather Lee Redbrook's had anxiety to some degree. I'm sure he wrestled with questions of why the heck am I here and what the purpose is. And I'm sure he had moments that may not, we wouldn't label a panic attack, but certainly some time in his life he had some level of uncertainty or insecurity or worry or concern. but he would never have told anybody about it. That's the difference. A, he was a man in the mid 19th century. Forget it. You think you're gonna come on B and say, know, darling, how do you feel about today? know, what, no, that didn't happen, right? By and large. People just didn't talk about it. They just sucked it up. They're too busy pumping water from the well or, you know, working on the farm or cleaning.

All right, let me interrupt you for second. Do you think, that we overshare today? Are we oversharing?

depends what you mean by that. we're getting, if we're using over that sharing to fill a void or fill a need, then yes. I don't think it's a problem with sharing. think that it's a problem with taking it too seriously in the sense that, you know, we talked about, we talked about happiness a couple of times ago when we talked about the Stoics, right?

Yes, exactly.

and how for them happiness meant pursuing a life of virtue. And I think Albert Brooks' great grandfather would probably have said something similar like, for me to be happy, I have to be a good husband, a good father, a good worker, a good member of my community, a good member of my church, so on and so forth. And that would generate respect. would... his great-grandfather would have had respect from somebody in the community who exhibited those characteristics, and he would have felt the same way about himself likely. But he certainly would have had his moments of doubt, of insecurity, of worry, of concern. So anxiety is nothing new. It's not new to our generation or to this century. It's been around since people have been around, right? We just didn't talk about it. So now, because those people in those days didn't think they had a right to anything. We talk about rights. We have a right to healthcare, we have a right to housing, we have a to childcare, we have right to this. Well, those people didn't think they had any rights. Here's my right to get up, pick up that hoe, get out to the garden, dig a hole, build a fence, whatever they were doing. They didn't focus on that stuff because A, they couldn't and B, they weren't brought up that way. Their parents felt the same way. Work hard, be a good person, be an upstanding citizen. or be a criminal. know, some people who grew up to be criminals, you know, or bank robbers, but you know, so but most people had that sense of what it took to be a good citizen, a good member of your community and so on. And they didn't

And they didn't feel entitled. They did not feel entitled.

Yeah, keep going with that.

Well, no, I keep thinking about who's entitled and who's not. And is that word synonymous with right? Do I have the right? Am I entitled to this? I mean, I think I've been thinking a lot lately about entitlement. Who's entitled to what? And what are we entitled to? I mean, I think that's where you're going with this. I think you're right. I don't have an answer,

I think we're entitled to nothing. I think we have no rights. think when people say to me, I'm a doctor, right? I want to give healthcare to everybody. I think I've told you, when a patient said to me, when I suggested they needed a procedure, and the patient would say to me, well, listen, doc, how much is this going to cost? And I would say nothing if you can't afford it. And I could do that because I was in a practice with like-minded people, and we ran our own practice, and we didn't answer to a hospital or any kind of organization. We could do whatever we wanted. So I do feel that everybody, should do the best we can to provide healthcare to as many people as we can. And that's my own personal opinion. But if somebody says to is healthcare right? I would say no. Is housing a right? No, these aren't rights. These are these are things we should strive to give to our to our fellow man, fellow women, and as much as we can, you you spent your life in nonprofit in the nonprofit world, taking care of other people. should want to do these things to help other people. But this idea of rights is very damaging because then you get to exactly what you just said. This sense of entitlement. Well, you know, what do you mean, I can't have this or that or the other thing? You know, I have a right to that. Well, you know, no, none of have a right to anything. I'll tell you another thing. This is a little bit off topic, but people say to me, aren't you proud you did this if I've accomplished something? Aren't you proud of that? I go, I don't like that word. I don't like, I would never, you're unlikely to hear me say, I'm proud of myself. That's not likely to be something that comes out of me. Because I have... If I do something well or something appropriate or something good or kind, that's what I'm supposed to do. Right. I don't need I'm not proud of myself. I'm unhappy with myself when I don't behave properly, when I treat somebody poorly.

say something particularly stupid, be mean to somebody, whatever. I'm mad at myself because then I've let myself down. But the converse is not true. I'm not proud of myself when I treat people well or I help somebody. No. So that's the same idea. It's because I don't feel entitled to anything. I feel we have to, we're on this earth. The gun goes off. You got to, you got to, like, you know, do whatever you can to improve yourself and improve the world and those around you. I do.

You pay taxes, right? Okay, so the money goes into the federal government or the state government, both, local government. So you don't think you have any rights to anything that, let's go back to healthcare. You don't think that as a citizen of this country, who's paid your taxes, you paid into your social security, your disability insurance, all of that, you don't think that there is any, you are not entitled to anything, not entitled to. a healthcare system that can lift you up.

I want a healthcare system to lift up everybody. That's different. But I don't feel entitled. I don't think we're born with the right to any of these things. That's where people get in trouble. If you look at the world that I'm entitled to this, I'm entitled to be treated a certain way, I'm entitled to have these things provided to me by the society, by the government. That's where you get into trouble. So yes, I pay taxes and yes, I expect them to fill the potholes and to have a fire department.

All right, but we're talking about happiness. How can I, let's talk about how can I ensure that somebody's happy when they're worried about how am going to pay the bill when I go to the doctor? How do we ensure happiness? I mean, we're talking, you know, we're talking today about anxiety. The people are anxious to go, they're scared, not necessarily because of the result of what that test is going to be, but how am going to pay for the damn test? I mean, so there is that fine line between what I expect, what I'm entitled to, what gives me happiness, what prevents my anxiety. I'm not sure how we reconcile all that with your thesis that we're not entitled to anything.

Well, don't get me wrong. I mean, I don't want anybody to be homeless or hungry or without healthcare. I don't want that. And I will do everything I can to help as many people like you have spent your life doing. So we try to do that in different fields, but basically the same idea. So it's a matter of, it's a mental state. If you expect these things and you don't get them, then all of sudden, by definition, you're quote unhappy. But that's the wrong thing to look for.

That's not what happiness really is. Happiness is striving. Happiness is moving forward. It's creating things. It's the act of creating new things by yourself or for other people. So for instance, if a creative person paints a, paints a, does a painting, writes a poem, creates a piece of music. Generally speaking, that person is probably going to feel pretty good, at least for a short period of time, because they've created something. Similarly, and we've talked about this forever, if you help somebody, if you make somebody's life better, you're going to feel a lot better. So this is where happiness comes from. But if you think you're entitled and you don't get it, then you're setting yourself up to be despondent, unhappy, depressed.

The reason I bring this up is because we don't want people to be this way. But if that's their expectation and those things aren't met, they're going to be unhappy. Here's a great example. People who say, well, somebody disrespected me. They disrespected me. And then they're mad or whatever. And of course, markekleinmd (12:39.0) That's a foolish way to feel because who cares how somebody else feels about you? You get to decide how you feel. The Viktor Frankl rule, we talk about it all the time. you can, as long as you're, in terms of respect, your job is to respect other people no matter what. It is not to expect people to respect you. If they respect you, great, because you've earned it, great. If they don't, maybe you haven't earned it. or doesn't matter. Maybe they're just not nice people, but it shouldn't have any effect on how you feel. That's up to you. It's the same idea here with this concept you were about entitlements. If you expect to get things, if you think the world owes you something, whether it be financial or emotional, in any area and you don't get it, you're setting yourself up to be what you would call unhappy. What I might say is unfulfilled, despondent, whatever, depressed. We don't want You don't want that for yourself and we certainly don't want it for other people. So one thing we talk about all the time is how to avoid that. Anxiety is completely defeatable. I won't say completely, that's a bit harsh, but it's a bit on top, but it's largely defeatable. How? By reminding yourself constantly. And Enid, I do this all the time. You're not the only anxious person on this podcast, right? I've had my moments and every time now when I start to feel it,

It could be two o'clock in the morning, could be two o'clock in the afternoon, could be any time. And I have to remind myself, whoa, whoa, Mark, you're forgetting, you're in control of how you feel. You don't have to feel this way, move on. And after doing this for quite a long time, it really actually works beautifully. Now, again, it takes practice, but everybody can do this. It's not a magic trick.

So that's why we talk about anxiety in this podcast, that it's defeatable because it is under, by and large, it is under your control. Unless you have some type of hormone secreting tumor or something else, which most people don't have, anxiety can be controlled largely from most people. Not for everybody, there are some very severe cases, but most people who have anxiety in their life, like you and me, This is, it's controllable. Once you understand, once you embrace the Viktor Frankl rule, you really got to embrace it and live it. I'm in control how I feel. Once you realize that truth about the world, because it is true, then you can regain that. So you don't want to set yourself in a position where you're going to be unhappy, where you feel entitled, where you feel owed, where the world has let you down. No, the world has nothing to do with your happiness. You have to do with your happiness. Go out there and move forward. And one of my books, I have this example of when things are going, when you're in a canoe or in a whitewater raft, this is great, it's a lot of people gone whitewater rafting. So when you're in a whitewater raft and the whitewater is just moving you forward, and if you don't paddle, you are completely out of control and you will get smashed against the rocks and likely bad things will happen. But if you paddle at the right time and you paddle just a little bit faster than the current, then all of sudden you're in control of the raft, you're in control of the boat. So that's why I people just keep paddling, paddle a little faster, get control back. Don't let the waves take you. You have the power to control how you feel. This is a fact of the universe. We call it the Viktor Frankl rule. It's been around long before Viktor Frankl. So this is why it's so important to embrace this idea. It is so immensely powerful.

you think our friend here, Mr. Brooks, certainly we don't know him, but he has made a career out of happiness. He teaches a course at Harvard, which is the number one course on campus about happiness. Why do you think that is? Why do you think people are, in this case, young people are striving for happiness? What is it about the notion of happiness that A, these folks, these strivers, these kids don't think they're happy, they don't think they have meaning. Why do you think it is that they're all enrolling for his course in happiness? And by the way, he's written books about it, he's made a career out of it, and I'm sorry he got there first. Why do think it is? Why are we so in search of happiness?

Well, you know, I got to hand it to Mr. Brooks. He found a niche and he went right with it and good for him and good for him because it's a good thing. know, yeah, he's made a career out of it. He's done quite well and I'm happy for him. But he's also he's helped a lot of people. So, you know, kudos to him. I'm out. I'm you know, maybe we'll get to meet him one day. Maybe we'll get him on the podcast. But, you know, clearly, so I have nothing but good things to say. I would just say, but if somebody said to you. I'm having a course to teach you how to make the most delicious food you've ever had in your life. And you can do it in your own kitchen and it's not very expensive. You have everything you need. Just come to my course and I'll teach you how to do it. But who wouldn't go to that course, right? That would be like the number two course, right? So he's offering something that everybody wants, happiness. Who doesn't want to be happy? He's not selling sorrow. He's not giving a course on how to give a eulogy. He's giving a course on something that everybody wants, happiness. So of course people are going to flock to that. Whether or not he's... You know, again, I have great respect for the man. I don't know how successful he's been, but I'm sure he's helped some people for sure. You know, I think the concept of the aerial view and combined with what we're talking about with the Viktor Frankov rule, that's a guaranteed, that is a guaranteed route to happiness. Absolutely guaranteed. Once people understand it and embrace it, it is the way to go. You cannot miss.

All right, so let's go over that again, because you've written the book and that's what the podcast is about. It's wisdom from the aerial view. So let's, if you will, take us to the aerial view of how we manage our stress, manage our anxiety, and then become more happy people. Take us to the aerial view. Tell us how we get there and how we can lay this burden that so many of us have of anxiety to rest. Take us through that again.

Okay, I mean, we've been through this many times. I don't want to bore listeners, but let's just sum it up. So the aerial view is this you become the disinterested observer and now you are just watching and viewing and remember

With the jukebox of time, all time exists contemporaneously. So now you see all of time and you realize your little slice of the jukebox of time is really very tiny, right? Super duper duper tiny, but it's not irrelevant. what you realize that is that, okay, you look, you see that everybody who's come before has gone, everybody dies, and you can see that you too are gonna die and everybody you love is gonna die. This is not a depressing thought. This is just the way it is. Okay, so what's the point? What are we here for? We're here to make this evolution. I believe, and again, I always say this, I'm not trying to sell anybody anything, but I believe that we're here for a reason, and that reason is to prepare for what comes next. And in order to make this successful transition, you have to make this evolution from selfish to selfless, from inward focus to outward focus. Because you realize that's the whole point of life. It's not fame, it's not fortune, it's not power. All those things go to zero the moment you leave this earth. And the other thing is they are not available to everybody. They're available to a very, very select few. And the purpose of life, the meaning of life has to be available to everybody, right? Because remember, We all are equal. I'm going to add this because it's very important to understand why we're all equal. Each of us contributes equally to the creation of reality. Every decision choice that each of us makes is released into the world and it affects every other decision and choice made by every other person and creates this cascade of events, the ultimate outcome we can see. So we are very powerful individuals. Our decisions absolutely have an effect on the entire world one way or another. So when you realize that this is that you have this immense effect on the world and that all of us are equal in that effect, then you see, okay, so it can't be power and fame and fortune that are important because they are available to very few and they are, they're ephemeral. They leave the moment that we leave this earth. But who you are and what you do and the effect you on the people, that last, that goes on forever because remember that.

Cascade of events that you create by an actor, a statement or whatever, that goes on and on and on and on like a wave that never ends from generation to generation to generation. Your decisions, your choices go on forever in terms of effect on other people. That's where the power lies. So you are important. You are valuable. It does matter. Now you have responsibility, right? Your responsibility is to use that power. to improve yourself and improve the world, become a person of substance, and then enhance the lives of as many people as you can. Okay, once you realize those things are truth in the aerial view, once you see that, and once you combine it with the Viktor Frankl rule that you're responsible for, that you have complete control of how you feel, then you realize, okay, I don't have to worry about what other people say, what other people do. You get focused on your own purpose. And then you start to have an impact and you don't worry about the other stuff. The world... People will come, people will go, events will happen, wars will come, wars will go, all these things will continue to happen. Don't worry about it. That's not what you're here for. That's not your purpose. Focus on what you can do to improve your life and those of others and off you go. And there's no reason to be anxious. Most people are anxious because about death. That's the number one thing people are anxious about. Well, guess what? We've talked about this a hundred times. Everybody's going to die. Stop worrying about it. It's as big a deal as you think. Anything that happens to everybody, 100 % of people, can't be that big a deal. I don't mean to be curt about this, but it's just the truth. So get over it, don't worry about it, focus on what you can do and what you should be doing, and that's it. That's how it goes.

You know, the more you talk about it, sometimes I think, well, if I don't care what other people think about me, because it's rather a selfish notion, why wouldn't I not care? Because if people don't like me or people don't respect me, maybe I'm doing something wrong. So why would I not care about what somebody else thinks about me? Is it not a very selfish notion that I don't give a damn what you think about me? I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. Isn't that selfish?

Well, let me ask you a question, Edith. So, you know, as wonderful a person as you are, I'm gonna bet that you've done some things in your life that you're not particularly proud of, that you don't really think you should have done. Okay, okay. Did you need somebody to tell you at that point that you were behaving in a way that was not to your own standards or to society's standards, to anybody's standards? Did you need somebody to tell you that you were being...

No, I don't know that that's relevant to what I'm saying. mean, no, don't need necessarily, but I can tell if I'm not being respected and that should bother me.

Well, are you not being respected because you're acting in an inappropriate way or you're not being respected because the person is not respected, it was just a jerk? Which is it? Yes, you do. Of course you know it.

I don't know that. mean, I'm just, is just... No, I don't know. mean, because I'm taking myself, I'm removing myself from this, because everybody respects me. No, I'm kidding. But my point is that if you don't worry about what or think about what other people are thinking about you, then maybe you're not acting in your own best interest.

So I can only speak for myself, but I think this is pretty much generalizable. So I've had many times in my life where people thought I was, you can use the same term, jerk, or I wasn't very nice or whatever, right? It's happened, believe me, more than I can remember. But every single time I knew that I was letting myself down. And I might say, I don't really care what you think, it doesn't matter. What I was really saying is I can't really face up to the fact that I didn't behave properly. and I was embarrassed and I was upset with myself. So...

If you're behaving in a way that meets your own standards or what should be the standards, whether you want to talk about, whether these are religious in origin or wherever we get these fundamental ideas of how we should treat people, you know when you're meeting those standards and when you're not. You don't really need somebody to tell you. So that's the point. And if somebody's treating you with, quote, disrespecting you, whatever that means, if somebody disrespects you, then it's either their problem, right, right? Or you have you have not met your own standards and you would if you were standing outside yourself, you wouldn't respect yourself either at that moment. So we know we know when we're not when we are deserving of other people's respect that, you know, so it doesn't matter. In other words, I don't really. It's not that I don't care what people think I know if I perform if I behave properly, people will be fine with me. And when I don't, they won't. So usually that it's usually that simple.

Yeah. Okay. I want to get back to happiness for a second, because I read a really interesting article too that I think is worth sharing with our listeners. it's called, What is Good in Your Life Lately? And it says, it's easy to notice the bad things in our lives and the world. But what if you made a list of the good things, big and small, that you've experienced lately? What would be on it? Maybe there's a fun new game you've discovered, a quote that inspired you, a song that you've been playing on repeat, a friend who made you feel heard, a news story that moved you, a delicious meal you can't stop thinking about, an outfit that you felt good in, a meme or video that made you laugh, a compliment that made your day. I keep a good list, this author says, because I know how much easier it is to complain or despair over what's bad, what's missing, what we wish were different. And let's be clear, there's plenty to be sad or dissatisfied about. We shouldn't stop wrestling with those things or trying to change them what we can. But there's got to be more. I used to think it was silly or sappy to write down the things that I love. But once you start doing it, once you start deliberately taking time out of your day to write down things that are good, you start noticing them everywhere. Once you start tracking what's good, you notice You feel good. Not all the time. Not so much that you lose your edge, but enough that you start to feel a little more balanced. If we want to be happy, a state that's become so overhyped and overanalyzed, we need to orient ourselves toward the good. Kind of an interesting thing. Write down all the good things. And this woman does it every day. She writes, what's good? I had a good meal today. This is what I ate. In other words, move yourself from the bad to the, makes you happy? What's good in the world? I think it's kind of an interesting concept. What do you think?

Yeah, I mean, it's fine. I would say to me, it's a little bit. I would change that. Nothing wrong with that. I'm fine with that is that I would change to say, OK, if you want to be happy, it's really easy. Turn the camera outward. Stop focusing on yourself. Right. So I have had to work very hard at this during my life. I'm not a natural. So I've worked very hard at it I've gotten better. I used to be and it took me a really long time. I think I told you that I'm a slow learner in some ways. But I but I finally got it and. I will tell you that if I find myself feeling down or sad or whatever, all of sudden I stop and I go, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. I'm here, you I have a job. This life is a gift. Don't waste it. As soon as that gun goes off and you're old enough to do good things, start doing good things, focus on other people. Don't focus on yourself. The more you focus on the self and your entitlements and your wants and your needs, you're going to be less. happy, to use that term, then you can be. If you focus on other people and constantly say, how am I handling my responsibilities to my fellow man and woman, and how am doing terms of my responsibilities to the society or my community, then you'll be fine. You'll spend most of your time feeling quite content and quite fulfilled. and you won't have to think about the other thing. When something happens that's unhappy, you stop and you go, okay, well, this is just part of life. Again, it's the aerial view. It's all part of life. Remember, we've talked about this and I can't stress this enough. All moments of time are equivalent. The good times are no more valuable than the bad times. We think they are. We like them better. which is why sometimes I laugh when I get an injury or I get sick or I'm about to have surgery. So I think, well, this is just another part of my life. It's a it's a it's another moment of the story of my life. When you stop focusing on me, me, me, me and oh, me and oh, my. I'm so I don't have this or I don't have that. Then you're going to then you're going to be in trouble. But if you constantly turn that camera outward, then moments of unhappiness will be quite few in the moments of fulfillment and joy will be quite many. And that's really what we want. And that's you know, that that was the one thing I thought that You know that Mr. Brooks, he talked about a lot, you know, about getting into life and so on. But I think that's, that's the secret. Stop focusing on yourself. Turn the camera outward. You'll be way, way better off.

I agree. And it looks like we're running out of time. I just wanted to say one thing that struck me that you said, that you said you would never say you're proud of yourself. Well, I'm proud of you. And I think you should be proud of yourself. And I don't think it's bad to be proud of ourselves because I think that means you think, you know, maybe I'm doing okay. And because I'm doing okay, makes me happy. And what makes me happy makes me proud. So I don't think it's a bad thing to be proud of yourself. And I'm proud of you, Dr. Well, thank you.

Well, I'm proud of you, but let me just say to that, when I do something, because I told you, I evaluate myself every day. How did I do today? And it's a little harder now that I'm not seeing patients every day. It was easy when I'd see 30 patients a day and I knew I did something good for somebody somewhere along the line. So that was easy. Now it's a little bit harder, but still, I still do that. But I would never say, it's nice. Look, I'm proud of you. You're proud of me. That is perfectly legitimate. When I find that I say, okay, I had a good day today, it's not that I'm proud of myself. I feel like, okay, I met the bar. I hopped over the bar today. Tomorrow's another day. Let's try and hop over it again. Because when I do that, when each of us does that, that's where the joy lies. That's where you're going to feel the fulfillment and the meaning and the purpose. And that's what, if you want to call it happiness, fine. But to me, it's even, it's a deeper sense of meaning and purpose and contentment in what you're doing in your life.

I agree, but anyway, I tell you what, when I get up in the morning, I'm just happy I'm alive. At this age, I'm happy I'm alive. Yes, no, absolutely. You know, that's a good thing. At our age, it's kind of nice that, yeah. We have one at a time, but I thank you for this. And I thank Mr. Brooks for writing that article, for making us think day in and day out about happiness, what it means and how we can be happy in our lives. And that's why the book, Wisdom from the Area Review is important because it really talks about how we find meaning.

and purpose and happiness in our lives. With that, I'll give you the last word.

My last word is thank you as always and I thank everybody for listening and we'll see you next time.

Peace.