Episode 61: Revisiting the Aerial View

Welcome to Wisdom from the Aerial View, a podcast that intends to help us lower our anxiety risk to find meaning and purpose in our lives and to see things in a different way. How are you today, Mark Klein?

I am very well in Bordon. How are you today?

I'm very good. Let's do something today that we haven't done in a while or maybe we haven't done well enough because I'm still not there yet. You wrote a book called wisdom from the aerial view and we talk about the aerial view and the street view and da da da. And then I think now what is he talking about? So let's do today um the aerial view 101. What do you mean by the aerial view? And why in fact am I not there yet? So what do you mean by the aerial view? Why did you write the book? What made you write this book in the first place? What caused you to do that? And what is it all about? What's it all about, Alfie?

You know, nobody's going to get that reference unless they're like old.

Alfie, all

you should sing the song.

Uh, it's from Yeah, you can tell them it's from a movie, etc. Okay. So, I'm glad we're revisiting this because we've been doing this podcast now for better than a year and we in the beginning we did talk about the aerial view and we tried to define it and explain it, but that's now a long time ago and so we have a lot I'm sorry we have a different group of listeners than we did then and uh wouldn't hurt to review it and as you said I haven't pulled you over the finish line yet so clearly I haven't done a good enough job. So you know wisdom from the airfield was my fourth book and I think it was a it was um a culmination of putting together a lot of the ideas that have percolated in my mind for many many years and some of which were were discussed individually in my previous books but this one was something a place where I thought we could put it all together. So and I think I say in the book the aerial view is the single most important discovery I've made in my life. I can't overstress this and what it is is a different perspective. Now, I will say because as you've heard me say many times, there's nothing new under the sun. This is not a uh an original thought. The only part of my of the aerial view that's probably somewhat or possibly a tiny bit original is incorporating some of the physics of the world into it to give it some more um substance to make it a little more substantial rather than just opinion and thought and so on. So what is the aerial view? The aerial view is a different perspective and in order to achieve to reach the aerial view people say well is it the 30,000 foot view? it it's not the 30,000 foot view because you because 30,000 foot view if you don't change the way you look at some of the on your understanding it just is a way to see things smaller right so you know you go to the 30,000 foot view everything is really small down there right so uh you get into an airplane and you go once you get up really quickly you look at these houses and these farms and all these things you go they're little teeny tiny things so the aerial view by itself is not just being above the earth somewhere in our atmosphere it's a it's a different perspective and it's perspective that requires a very fundamental thing to happen and that is to become if you want to be reach the air view you must become the disinterested observer what does that mean so uh we were watching football games you and I yesterday

yes

and I always felt it's easier to more fun for me to watch a football game where I don't have a rooting interest like my team isn't in it right

right

because when my team's in it it's like so stressful even though it's ridiculous to be stressful and I have to and I continually tell myself what are you It's, you know, it's just a game and I do believe that. But when your team isn't in it, then you can just actually sit back and watch the game and enjoy it. Oh, that's a great play by that team. Great play. Okay. So, that's being the disinterested observer where you don't have a horse in the race, right? And you can do the same thing in life. You can become the disinterested observer and ascent to what I call the aerial view. You're not really going up in the air. You're still gravity is still doing its thing and keeping your feet on the ground, but it changes your perspective. Now that's the first part. Now you have released yourself from being on a team. So you know I'm very uh against us speaking about politics on this on this podcast. There's a million political podcast. If people want want to hear about politics they there's like a lot of places they can go with people who are much more sophisticated than I am for sure about politics. So um so we just try and stay away from politics. But the reason is because when you're in politics you're you're generally on a team. you're on the blue team or the red team, the left team or the right team most of the time and then you're really into it and it's like watching a game. You're just like so involved and so emotional and it's very hard to to hear the other side of or accept that there's a legitimate alternate view. Whereas when you're in the aerial view and you become that disinterested observer and you no longer have a a horse in the race, you no longer have a team, then you're just sitting back in your chair and watching. You're just watching what's going on. And here's the other thing that happens. This sounds terrible, but it doesn't really matter what's going on. It doesn't matter how awful or heinous it is, right? That that sounds terrible. It's not that you don't care. You know, when you're in the street view, you care, right? And you should care about people's welfare and their health and their and their ability to to live freely and with dignity and respect.

Define the street view. You just said you mentioned the street view.

The street view is what where we live. It's where everything happens. It's where the good stuff happens, where we laugh and smile and have f fun with our friends or we love. Uh, and it's where bad things happen. Violence and cruelty and inhumity to man, to your fellow man or to other animals. Everything happens in the street view. We eat, we drink, we sleep, everything happens in the street view. And we all live in the street view and it's unavoidable. That's where life occurs, right? But there's another place that's the air view where you can dis become that disinterested observer. remove yourself and just watch. And you can watch things that are terrible without having an emotional response in the aerial view. And the reason it's so important because that perspective changes everything. We talked last week a lot about the jukebox of time in our last podcast. And so when you appreciate all of time exists contemporaneously in this what we call the jukebox of time, then you can see all moments for what they are. Just equivalent pieces of of of parts on game pieces on a chessboard. That's all they are. That they are one is no more important than the next. They're just individual ex moments of time that exist forever and all are equivalent. No matter how much we want to say one is more important than the other. In the jukebox of time, every record looks exactly the same. We imbue moments with importance. Life, death, birthdays, weddings, whatever, right? We we say, "Oh, those are the most important days. July 4th, Christmas, you know, whatever. We we say, "Oh, those are the most important days." But in the jukebox of time, and from the aerial view, there's no such thing. All moments are equivalent. As humans, we give them importance. But, uh, from the universe's point of view, and in the jukebox of time, and from the aerial view, they are all equivalent. Okay? Now, you're dealing, now you've reached a different place in your life. Now, you're seeing all of time, all of history, understanding that exists, all exists at the same time, and you now have removed yourself from the street view. Now you're this independent observer just watching just watching the game that your team isn't playing in and appreciating what's going on. And then you see, oh, you see a conflict and you go, oh well, I'm not part of that conflict anymore. And now I look at this conflict and I go, hm, there's at least two points of view here. There's probably more points of view. I'm not saying they're all equal, but they all exist. And in order to solve that conflict, everybody who every participant in that conflict needs to understand that there are there is more than one way to see this that has some degree of legitimacy. I'm not saying they're all equal because in order to resolve a conflict, you have to recognize that the other person has a point. Now, Ellen Langanger, Dr. Ellen Langanger told us during her her podcast interview with us that everybody does there's always a reason that somebody does something. There's always a reason. Your job in the aerial view is to say, "Ah, I recognize that person has a reason as a point of view. I don't share it when I'm in the street view, but I see it." Now, how do we resolve this conflict? Oh, I get it. You get everybody to stop focusing on their own point of view and paying attention to the other points of view. Leave your point of view out for a time being. Just listen. Just pay attention. Okay. I I I saw what happened down there. I have my point of view and I'm now as a as a distin observer I'm interested in all points of view. Okay, let me hear yours and then all of a sudden a miracle happens. Then all of a sudden people instead of being stuck in their own point of view, their own perspective have now left that perspective and are now willing can now for the first time can appreciate that there are other points of view and become willing to hear them. You don't have to agree at the end of the day. But once you do that then the enemy is no longer the enemy. Generally speaking, the enemy is just another person with a point of view that differs from yours. And then you can generally find a way to figure out how together we can solve this conflict, resolve this problem. So the aerial view is critical for getting there and to appreciate that. Now the aerial view has many other any many many other benefits and I've just chosen to talk about one. For instance, we talked about death last uh recently. Uh last time I believe we talked about death and the aerial view is a perfect way to appreciate what death is. It's just a it's just the last record you're on in the jukebox of time. No more, no less. So, we becoming this disinterested observer, going to the aerial view and giving up your pers your your um position in the world. You no longer become a member of the team. You you've you've left that team. You've left that uh that uh involvement and now you're just watching and observing. And once you do that, the lights just go on one after the other and you realize everything about the world is different than you thought.

I'm gonna take a break so you can talk.

How can you be a disinterested observer when you're seeing something going on that is not a good thing? Not not heinous. We're not going to go that far, but you see something that's really not a good thing. How in fact do you disassociate from that and not get involved?

That's what we're talking about. It's a perfect question. So, when you're in the street view, you generally have a team, right? You're on a team, whether it be a political team or a sports team or something. You're rooting for some team, right? Blue team, red team, left team, right team, whatever, right? You got a you got a position, generally speaking.

Or maybe rooting for ourselves.

Okay. Well, hang on a second. Okay. I'm not saying everybody has a team, but it's often

Yeah.

There's an argument at a school, your kids at school.

Yes.

And something happens at the kids school and right away the teams divide.

Yes.

Parents on one side, parents on the other side. Bang. Right. It doesn't have to be a major event. It could just be a little school thing, whatever. Right. That happened to your kid in school, right? Immediately there's this urge to pick one side of the other.

Yeah. But from the aerial view, you come back, you look at the aerial view and you say and you realize you go, well, okay, I see those parents over there. Most of them seem pretty rational to me, reasonable people. And I see those people over there. H most of them seem like reason rational people, but they're completely on opposite sides of this discussion. The first we have to say is okay, I'm curious now as a disinterested observer. Now I'm curious, right? What are their different perspectives and why are they so different? Then you then you open your mind to listen to them and you hear them and you go that makes some sense. It makes some sense. I think I think the guys on I think team A is probably kind of got got this one right. But I could understand why team B feels the way they do. I don't agree with them that but I see it. Okay. Now how do we bring them together? First thing is they both have to be in the aerial view to say that there are more than one way to look at this. Right? And then generally what will happen is people will at least be able to listen to each other and stop hating each other and accusing each other, right? It's generally not so simple. Look, some things in life are obvious, right? But most there are so many things that aren't. And by by ascending to the aerial view on just this particular thing we're talking about, how to choose between A and B, you realize that you don't really have to choose between A and B so much as get A and B to listen to each other and and understand that there's more than one way to see it and say, "Okay, how do we live with this? How do we work this out to live with this?" Okay, let's find a compromise. Let's find what we can we can live with. Right? I'll give you a really good example. It's a hot topic, right? Abortion. Abortion. Whoa. You know, that's like Mark, are you really going there? You're going to abortion? It's like a flammable issue, right? Yes. Abortion. I'm going to talk about abortion. Okay. Now, I'm a doctor. I did 30,000 ultrasounds or more in my career. I've seen a zillion uh six week fetuses. I've seen a zillion fetuses all through pregnancy. I've seen a lot of babies. I delivered babies when I was in medical school. I've seen the whole thing. Okay. Okay. Now, I'm in the aerial view and I hear the abortion issue. One side says,"Well, my body, my choice, women's right to choose. You can't tell me what to do." I go, "Okay, that sounds like a reasonable point of view. I get it. Okay, I'm in the aerial view." Now, the other side says, "Well, you know, this is a living thing, and if you, you know, if you prematurely, you know, kill it or terminate a pregnancy, you're killing a life that otherwise would exist." That's absolutely 100% true. I can tell you that is 100% true. Abortion is a premature termination of a life. Period. It is what it is. Okay. So, if I'm on the pro-life side, I go, "Well, what what do you mean that that should be it? That's the end of the story, right? You're prematurely terminating a life that has a right to live. In fact, my body, my choice, if the fetus could talk, would probably say the same thing. Fetus can't talk. Can't say my body, my choice." So, the pro-life people would say, "Come on, this is a slam dunk." I go, "Well, it's not a slam dunk." Because the people in the pro-choice side say, "You can't tell a woman what to do. It's her body. This is changing her whole life for possibly for many, many years, if not forever." That's I hear that. I can hear that. All right. So, who's right? They're both right. Everybody's right. There's no wrong here. Nobody has said anything untrue in that argument. Right. Okay. So, now what do we do? Okay. Now that now that we're in the air and we see that both sides have legitimate arguments. I have no problem seeing it. Right. I am I have no problem seeing both sides having absolutely legitimate arguments. Right. Okay. Now, what do we want to do? You want to shoot each other? That doesn't sound like a good plan. How about we come up with something else? Okay, you have So, the pro-life people say pro-choice people, you have a point. I hear you. You can't tell it's there's something wrong about telling a woman what to do. I I I hear that, right? And the pro-choice people say, "Okay, I get it. If you didn't terminate this pregnancy, that would be a life. It's a it's a point. It's legitimate. It's accurate. All right. Do we want to fight for the for eternity about this? What can we live with? we're not going to get what we want because we're both right. Both sides are right. So now, okay, I hear you. I see it. I see it now. There are two legitimate sides. Let's work it out. And so this is actually what's happening in our country now, right? Gone back to the states. Even states like red states like Ohio have passed, you know, uh laws that allow abortion. I don't even know how long, but to certain to some point, I don't remember all the state laws, but people are doing that. They're starting to compromise. You know, it's not perfect. Obviously, it's not perfect, but until you recognize that there are legitimate arguments on both sides, that these people have a legitimate point of view that you don't have to agree with, that's where the area of something so simple about making looking at issues like this. It's a wonderful way to be because now you you open your mind to this p to this to this perspective that it's all-encompassing that people do have legitimate points of view even though they're not mine. So, and that's the tiniest part of the aerial view. It gets much more important when you understand topics like we talk about topics like death and purpose. This is where the aerial view is exceedingly valuable.

Yeah. And compromise is a good thing to talk about also choice. We had a guest on the show Dr. Ellen Langanger who um wrote a mar wrote several marvelous books and she talks about this notion of choice that there's no right choice or wrong choice. It's make a choice and make it right. So let's talk about choice in the aerial view. Does the aerial view take into consideration choice? Yes, but um I don't want to confuse the issue. Choice, we've talked about why there's no such thing as a right choice, but what but what the aerial view shows you is that every choice is going to end up with a with a a an outcome and what that outcome is is outcome is impossible to predict. We don't know what it's going to be, but we can appreciate the fact that there are lots of options. So the aerial view because it's so all-encompassing and we and now we're just sitting back in our easy chair as a disinterested observer, we can we can look at these things. That's why that's why I wanted to talk about abortion. People would think this is the hardest thing to talk about and yet it it is it is a perfect um example of how valuable the aerial view will be once you become that disinterested observer and you viewing this from above and you see that there are two sides to to a story and both sides have legitimate arguments. That's why for me as a physician and and as somebody who's very concerned about people's rights and and the ability to make those choices for themselves, I I can hear the pro-choice side and go, "That makes sense." And I can hear the pro-life sides and go, "That makes sense." And I realized that, oh, what it takes is for each side to just listen to each other, to understand that there's more than one point of view. There is more than one option. There is more than one choice. And history has shown us this again and again and again. Uh that's what the jukebox of time contains. All of these uh events that have occurred previously, all these discussions and controversies. The abortion isn't new. And not only isn't abortion itself new, but having a topic that's controversial is isn't new, right? There've been controversial topics in all of history. Once you do that, you go, "Okay, all right. What's my job? My job is to make the world a better place, to create peace and harmony, to help as many people as I can." Well, fighting for one side above all other sides when I know in my heart that the other side does have a legitimate point of view because I can see it from the area view. Okay. Now my responsibility has changed. Now my responsibility is not to fight incessantly to from my point of view from my side is to understand that in order to make this world better and fulfill my obligation as a human being to fulfill my mission to make the world a better place and to help people then I have to say okay we now we need to listen to the to the other side. We need to accept the fact that they have a legitimate point of view and let's find a way that we can live with something together. And that happens. You know, you talk about politics. This is what happens all the time in politics. Most of these things do not require uh escalating to violence, death, uh cruelty. We we don't have to get there. From the aerial view, we can see that it is completely unnecessary that there's more than one way to look at something and we have to open our minds to do that. Is there always in other words that that seems a very finite answer there's always two sides of every story but are there Hitler that that where is the comp where do you compromise there there are moments in history there are moments in time that do not allow or should not allow a compromise am I correct

you're correct 100% right and so if you look at the jukebox of time you look at all of time considering all the controversies and all the arguments and all the discussions that occurred you've now picked out one of the three worst in the history of mankind. Right? So yes, there are going to be times when it's clearly when it's clear and people will say to you, oh no, well this is one of those times. No,

meaning any specific event. No, this is not this does not rise to the same thing, right? There is there is I can from the aerial view if you're honest the aerial view makes you be honest. It removes yourself from the team. You have to become that disinterested observer. If you are unwilling to become a disinterested observer, you're not going to the aerial view. Okay? You'd say, "Well, I don't care. I don't if I go to the aerial view." Fine. You want to have a more stressful, unhappy, less meaningful life. Go ahead. Hang out in the street view 100% of the time. Good luck. I wish you the best. You're going to fail. You're never going to have a fully meaningful or life, a full life or meaningful life, a mission purpose life. If you stick in that street view and you stick on your team and you won't listen to anything else, that's your prerogative. You can do that. If you want to spend your whole life on the street view, go ahead. Knock yourself out. It's a really dumb idea.

Okay. So, we talk about on this show about relieving stress in our lives. So, let's talk about that. Tell me how in fact by using the aerial view, we can relieve stress in our lives. Tell me that.

Oh, it's the ultimate stress reliever. Right. So, number one, let's just stick stick what we're talking about being on a team and pounding that team and pounding that point.

Right?

Let me tell you something. I don't know a lot of happy people who are yelling, screaming, and uh fighting all the time. This is not this is not a recipe for a peaceful, happy life. You know, I'm sorry. It just doesn't work. It's not going to work. It's never going to work. So, why would you want to do that if you have an alternative, right? So at the very least once you once you get to the aerial view and appreciate the breadth of opinion the breadth of of of the of of history of what life has been and continues to be repeated again and again these things have happened before you are not living in a unique time you know younger generations always think ah we are different this time it's different

I respect that that's what young people are supposed to do you know here's a blast no you're not it's all happened before you know you Romeo and Juliet's a great story. Why? Because it's the story's been repeated a billion times, right?

Right.

It's a great and it gets repeated and repeated and repeated. I have a I have a friend I don't I don't want to say too much, but um who who uh is of a certain religion and um one of his child, one of his children has married somebody of a religion that is heinous to him, anathema to him, right? And has just separated them. And I'm thinking, well, this is Romeo and Juliet all over again, right? It's the same story, right? It's the same story. So, if you want to get rid of your stress in your life, you have to appreciate the jukebox of time that all that everything has happened before uh everything happens now has happened before and will happen again. There is nothing unique. Every human story is just a repetition of what came before. Once you appreciate that, then you allow yourself to become disinterested. Get off the street view. Get, you know, elevate yourself to the aerial view. Stop being on a team. Relinquish that. Just watch. Just see. You'll see. You'll see that death is just the last record in a jukebox in of your lifespan. That the records will go on. Uh that your records stay playing forever. We talked about that last week. You will see that all history repeats itself. That there are no new stories. You will see that the that the way to peace and harmony is to respect the fact that there's that there are good people who have other points of view. Not Hitler, not Stalin. Okay, these are clearcut, right? Palp pot, you know, and if we go back in history, there have been lots of others, but these are the exception, not the rule, right? Yeah, sometimes you have to take a stand. Sometimes you have to fight World War II. There's no way around it, right? It's just that's going to happen. But most of what goes on in your life is not World War II. It's not Hitler or Stalin or Paulot. Most of it is not. Most of it is much more subtle. most of it has the ability to reach uh a harmonious solution that people can live with if they're willing to open their minds to another point of view. This is why current politics when people say this is the worst it's ever been. Oh my god, it's not even close. The history of the world is probably not in the top 100 thousand whatever. No, we're disagreeing about things. Okay, there's nothing new, right? Just frame it in the abortion issue. Okay, do both sides have a legitimate point here? Can you understand their point? You have to agree with it. Can you see it? Yeah. Yeah, I actually get it. I see it. Okay. Boom. Now you're done. Now your job is to say, "Okay, what is my responsibility uh as a as an individual to make this better?" And once you do that, the stress goes away. The anxiety goes away. You're not stuck on a team. Now you have a much higher mission, a higher calling. Now you're trying to fix the world. Okay, that'll get rid of your anxiety in no time.

But don't you think that's a little simplistic? Because if I'm on this team, if I have a point of view and I'm trying to look at it from the aerial view to see your point of view, but I don't believe your point of view, I can't.

Then you're stuck in the street view. Then you haven't gotten to the aerial view because abortion is a great example. There are two legitimate points of view. That's true in every in our politics now. Pick a topic. I don't care what your topic is. You know, you don't you have a specific way. You have a specific team. I get that. I look as and I go, every one of these issues, I see the other side. I get it. I have a I have I have a point of view. I I know what I'd like to see happen, but I hear the other people and I understand where they're coming from. I don't have to agree with it. Okay, I get it. That's true of almost every single issue. You don't When you're on a team and you're so dug in, you can't appreciate it. But from the aerial view, you say, "Okay, I I kind of can I kind of see their point. It's not I don't buy it, but at least I I see it and they're not horrible, awful, miserable, rotten people. No, they just see it. Then then you have a chance and then your stress goes away. You go, "Okay, well, I don't have to fight so hard. I have to fight more to bring peace than I do have to that I get my way." Right? That's the difference. This is why um this is why it's so the hero view is so valuable in interpersonal relationships. I'll give you a great example. So, you're in a relationship, a marriage, boyfriend, girlfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend, whatever, whatever it is. Okay, we'll cover all the bases here, right? Um, and you can say, well, I I just feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I do all the work. I make all the decisions. I have all the responsibility. I got to do this. I got to do that. Right? Okay. And you're you're smack in the street view and you see it from your point of view. Now, the other person, your spouse, your your brother person your relationship is is saying the same thing to his or her friends,

right? They're saying the same things. He never listens to me. She never listens to me. She doesn't care. He doesn't this. They're saying the same thing. Okay, you're in the area of you go, "Oh, well, this is obvious. What's happening here?" Well, they're all focusing on they're focusing on themselves. No wonder they're unhappy. Okay, switch the camera. One of the things I tell people in terms of relationships is say really good things about your significant other every day to other people out loud, right? Say it out loud. Oh, my h my husband, wife, my boyfriend, my girlfriend, my mother, my father, whatever the relationship is. Just say really good things about them. Not the negative things. Focus on them. Focus on their good traits. Focus on the things you like about it. And all of a sudden, this miracle happens. You start to feel better about them, too. about about your relationship.

Good. That's good. That's a good thought. So, say nice.

But this but this is all aerial view stuff. It's it's opening your perspective. It's widening. It's becoming that disinterested observer.

Okay. We are running out of time. So, I I but I have to get to this. How and when did you get here? How and when did you find the aerial view? Was it your wife? Because I know everything rolls off of her back. She's Wait. Tell me how did did that have an impact on you or did you come to that before that?

Well, she certainly had an impact because I saw how peaceful she was and I went, "How the heck do you get there?" Right.

Yeah.

That was the goal. Get get to where she is.

Yeah.

Um

but it took many years to appreciate this. And again, you know, I don't want to go chase people away with physics, but physics has a place here because it it tells us the world is not what we think. Let's leave it at that.

We'll talk about more of that later. I don't I don't want to bore people and we don't have much time but let's just leave it at that the world is not what you think and once you understand what the world is that also colors everything that also makes the aerial view much more real and much more important but I actually we are at a time and people are uh we're getting all sorts of things here but so let let's end it like this let's let's say that this discussion we've been doing for a while now your book is extremely extremely important it's a way for us to relieve the anxieties that life presents to us. I am more anxious and eager. No, anxious. I'm not eager. I'm anxious than most because everything um I I take everything to heart. I would like to be a little bit more like you and your wife. More actually like your wife cuz she's just easygoing. Um you are too. So tell me in one sort of synthesize it all. Tell us quickly what's the best way to find our way to the aerial view and then we'll say thank you to everybody for listening.

Okay. The first thing the the most important thing is to be learn to become that disinterested observer. Get off the team. Stop having uh picking a side. Just decide that I want to view the whole thing in its entirety. I'm going to remove myself temporarily from the street view, temporarily from having a team and just opening my mind and seeing all potential uh opinions, perspectives as equals in the initially initially. You don't have to agree with them. You never have to agree with them. When you turn to the turn to the street view, you can still have a side. But you but becoming that disinterested observer and just observing the world as if you're watching a football game or any sporting event where you don't have a team involved where you don't really care who wins. You're just watching it and to enjoy it.

That's it. That's the first step. Become that disinterested observer. Anybody can do it at any time.

Appreciate it. We have run out of time. I thank you so much for this. This is an interesting discussion. We have to continue this discussion. We've got to get us all to the point where we can become disinterested observers and take the stress out of our lives that is frankly you know better than anybody stress kills. Thank you so much for this. Appreciate it. Have a great day.

Thank you Andid. We'll see you all next time people. Thanks for listening. Peace.