Episode 51: Interview with Dr. Ellen Langer--Part I

Welcome to wisdom from the aerial view our weekly conversation about what really matters in life How to move from fear to courage from anxiety to clarity from selfish to selfless to a life grounded in purpose and connection I have to tell our listeners that today's a very special day for Mark and me Because we've been talking about our guests for a very very long time now So much so that we've read all of our books I have her book her latest book with me right now and I've read it more than once. It's dog-eared Let me tell you a little bit about our guest. Her name is Dr. Ellen Langer. She was the first woman to be tenured in psychology at Harvard, where she is still a professor. She is a recipient of four distinguished scientist awards, a Couginheim Fellowship and Liberty Science Genius Award. She's the author of 12 books, including her newest book, The Mindful Body, Thinking Our Way to Chronic Health. She's known worldwide as the mother of mindfulness and the mother of positive psychology. Now I'm... We'll tell you, our listeners now understand why we couldn't wait to have you on this show. It's really an honor and a privilege for us to do that. We talk a lot on this program, Dr. Langer, about stress and how important stress is in our lives, et cetera. Let's start there. I will read from your book. It says, I started reading about the psychology of stress as an undergraduate and I've come to believe that it is likely a bigger killer than even heart disease and cancer. With each health study I've conducted, I've become more convinced of its damaging effects. Tell us a little bit about why is stress so bad? Ellen Langer (01:34.828) Yeah, my view is actually even more extreme than that. You I think that as soon as people are diagnosed, let's say you're diagnosed with cancer, any kind of cancer, nobody's going to be happy about that. Okay, so let's wait three weeks and then start measuring their level of stress. I believe that will predict the course of the disease over and above genetics, diet, and even treatment. You know, which, so...

So let's wait.

that will predict. Ellen Langer (02:04.96) And if you think about it, stress is, despite what the medical world used to believe, stress is a psychological concept. And that means that doing different, understanding things differently can alleviate virtually all of these diseases, any disease to which stress is contributing. And stress, people don't understand, it's not event stress. It's the view we take.

think about it, stress is, despite what the medical world used to believe, stress is a psychological consequence. And that means that doing different, understanding things differently can alleviate virtually all of these diseases, any disease to which stress is attributed. And stress, people don't understand, it's not event-related stress. It's the view we take. Ellen Langer (02:34.826) Now, I didn't say that first, Epstein said that way back when, so people are very slow to learn. But at any rate, and I have several one-liners with respect to stress. Let me put a few out there so people listen briefly and go to whatever they're doing today. They still walk away with something potentially meaningful. The next time you're stressed, ask yourself, is it a tragedy or an inconvenience? Because it's almost never a tragedy.

Now, I didn't say that first, even said that way back when. People are very slow to learn. But at any rate, and I have several one-liners with that distress. But let me put a few out there so people listen briefly and come to whatever they're doing today. They still walk away with something. The next time you're stressed, ask yourself if it's a tragedy or an injury. Because it's never a tragedy. Ellen Langer (03:03.858) I banged the car, I burnt the dinner, I forgot to arrive at the appointment, whatever. And so when you say it's tragedy or an inconvenience, and all of a sudden then you take a breath and realize, okay, so it's no big deal. And we also want to understand, here's a little echo here. So it's hard to speak straightforwardly, but let me get through it.

Right, I banged the car, I burnt the cleaner, so it arrived at the appointment, whatever. And so when you say it, the tragedies are inconvenience, and all of a sudden then you take a breath and realize, okay, so it's no big deal. And we also want to understand, here's a little echo, so it's hard to speak over the phone. Let's stop for a second, because it will drive everybody crazy.

You know, let's take a, let's stop for a second, because it'll drive everybody crazy. Ellen Langer (03:33.994) Okay.