Episode 50: Lessons From History

Welcome to wisdom from the aerial view the podcast for those who wish to learn how to crush their anxiety and find meaning and purpose in their lives Good afternoon. Good morning. Good day. Dr. Mark Klein. How are you today?

So you in it, I'm great. I hope you are as well. You look wonderful.

I am, thank you so much. I want to start a little story to tell you that last night I had a wonderful opportunity to go to a concert here in DC at a very fascinating place. It's a very old synagogue. It's called Sixth and I. And I went to see a wonderful violinist. But that's not why I wanted to tell you this story. The story was that when we went into the synagogue, we were frisked. up and down, we had to show our bags, had, I mean, it was as though we were, they were wondering if we were all bombers and whatever. And the vast majority of those who went to the concert, of were older people. And I got to thinking, you know, is this the way it's going to be? Is this what we're living like in America today that we have to be worried when we go into a house of worship, even though we're not there to worship, we are there to see a concert? And then that led me to the discussion that you wanted to have today about history repeating itself. And so, I've been doing a little bit of research and I found something from the University of Notre Dame. And I wanted to read it as a beginning to this conversation today. It's from a professor. He wrote, I've always been a strong believer that history repeats itself. Hitler's failed invasion of Russia in 1941 mirrors Napoleon's blunder in 1812. Massive amounts of consumer debt helped lead the Great Depression. And within 80 years of the Great Recession, followed a similar path. Sure, there are coincidences, but I believe the underlying cause of why we see so many déjà vu events is because humans at their core share values and tendencies that don't change with the times, one of which is the desire to see change and revolt when they believe something is fundamentally wrong with society. So you wanted to talk about history repeating itself, so let's. A. Why did you want to talk about it? And B. Let's talk about it.

Well, that was a great introduction, by the way, because the guy, I don't know if it's a man or a woman who's the professor, but anyway, he or she, you might know. OK, so he, you don't have to keep saying all these pronouns. He is correct that history repeats itself. And his conclusion.

I think it was a man.

I don't completely, I sort of, he's got part of it, right? But I don't think he's got the essence of it, in my opinion. And the reason I want to talk about it, because it is so relevant, not only for our age and where we are right now, this period of time, but really for every period of time. Because it allows people to see things in a way that is less anxiety provoking, less stressful, less depressing, less pessimistic, or maybe even... I mean, some might interpret it as more pessimistic because you go, my God, we know what's happened before it's going to happen again. So let's talk about this a little bit. all these, the anecdotes, the examples he gave of the Russian invasion by Napoleon and by Nazi Germany, by Hitler are course correct. but there are two very, very small snapshots in time that just give you an inkling that maybe something is going on. So it's not just that history repeats itself, it's that everything about human life repeats itself. So this is a very aerial view perspective and that's why I wanted to talk about it because it is a perfect example of what the aerial view informs, how it informs us. in a way we can interpret our lives in the street view in which we live differently, and also to give us individual hope and diminished stress and purpose. So, I've covered just a lot in the last sentence, but so let me elaborate. Each of us pretty much goes through the same thing as our forebears, as our parents, our grandparents, great grandparents. The set changes, right? So we have high-tech equipment. They had horses 200 years ago. We have cars and planes and so on. So modes of transportation change, technology absolutely changes. So many things change. What doesn't change is the story of human life, which is why we can read works of fiction from ancient Greece.

or Shakespeare or the 19th 18th and 19th century. And these novels, these stories still are interesting to people because they're the same stories that we're seeing ourselves. So when people read like Jane Austen, they know people who are like those characters. They can relate to those characters because it's all the same story. And the same thing happens with societies. So those examples you gave of war, certainly, but societies rise and fall. have a good friend who's an historian.

Sure.

wrote a book recently in the last couple of years about how comparing our situation and Rome. And he wrote it actually with Steve Forbes, a well-known Steve Forbes from Forbes Magazine. So two of them wrote this book. And of course, they draw all these parallels. And many of course, are going to be true because that's exactly what happens in the history of the world, in the history, let's say, of humanity, for instance. it happens again and again, the same stories, both individually. As I mentioned, we do the same thing as our parents and grandparents and also as societies. And really the question is, why? We don't usually ask that question, but to me, that's the most important question.

Can I, let me just, if I might interrupt one second, one of the things that we were talking about in that history, okay, history repeating itself, you've got military miscalculations, happens over and over. You've got economic crashes over and over, assassinations, pandemics, and tornadoes even, school shootings. The reason I brought up what happened last night at the concert was that, you know, not that long ago we had,

No, you're not interrupting. want you to talk.

mean, history repeating itself could be from one decade to the next. It doesn't have to be centuries. It could be decades. It could be weeks. We do it over and over again. We repeat ourselves. And so your question about why that's what we need to discuss, why does it keep happening? Why is it over and over? Do we never learn anything? I ask you that.

That is the perfect question to ask. Don't we learn anything? know, that famous phrase, to ignore history is to repeat it.

is to repeat it. That's correct. Right.

Right. OK, so I joke that we should retire that phrase because it's nice, but it's meaningless because we do ignore history and we do repeat it. Why? Why do we ignore it? So we have all these history books and tomes of information from centuries past about, like you said, prior wars and pandemics, et cetera, et cetera. know, why don't we? I was talking to one of my adult children yesterday and I said, you know, why is it that we can't just take a book like we're in elementary school and start reading this book over the few years about how life works and the history of the world and all these things that human beings go through and societies go through. And why do we have to go through it? Why can't we just read it and say, okay, this is what happens and we're going to do that anymore? That happened 87 times, but we're smart now, right? We have all this technology, we're so educated. So we don't, we're not going to do this again. yes we are, right?

because we're not so smart.

Well, we are smart, but here's the problem. There are two issues at play here. One is the simple answer is because we humans are generally looking out for ourselves to a major degree. We have to survive. We have to feed ourselves. We have to clothe ourselves. We have get shelter for us and our families. We have to do all these things. And so as we're doing them, sometimes we may not behave in the best possible way because we feel the pressure to survive ourselves and protect our families and so on and our communities. So that's one thing that keeps, so even though we learn, we still have our own individual lives we have to live. And plus we have our own individual desires and wants besides just survival. You we want to be successful. We want to have. some degree of financial security want, some people want power, a lot of people want power, at least some power over their lives. So these motivations don't change. They repeat generation after generation. So we can read all we want about this and know it's going to happen, but still we are going to follow our own course. We are going to look out for ourselves and our families and our communities, and we're just going to do that no matter what happened before. So that's the other thing. that's very interesting. So the human need and human desires, Trump our knowledge of history. So our knowledge of history is never going to prevent all those things you mentioned. It's never gonna bring more wars, more assassinations, more social upheaval, more financial turmoil, more ups and downs and everything. It's never going to change. You can learn history till you're blue in the face. As long as human beings are involved, the story is gonna repeat. And there's a deeper level, which I think I like to talk about from the aerial view, which is the fact that that it is peculiar that we do this again and again and again. It's peculiar that we don't just...

learn from history and what our parents and grandparents did, what societies did. It is peculiar that we keep doing it again and again and again. Why don't we learn more, as you said? So yeah, we have our own individual needs, but you think, okay, fine. But collectively, we all know what's going to happen if we behave in a certain way. So why don't we smart up and say, you know what, instead of me climb my own individual ladder and pushing you down, or you pushing me down or whatever, why don't we, we know what's going to happen if we do that. We've seen this story a million times. Why don't we do something different? And it's the same reason that you can't read a book about life when you're in elementary school or junior high school or high school. You can't just read the book. There's a certain experiential requirement in life. We must go through these things ourselves. You always say, you look at your kids, your young people, and you say, okay, well, I'm gonna tell him or her this, but they're not gonna listen to me. It's not that they don't wanna listen to you. There's no option. They must go through this experience themselves. Life is experiential. So then we get to the next question, another why. Why is life experiential? Why can't we just read about it? That's when we start moving from the aerial, then you start to see from the aerial view what this is all about. that life, that there's a reason it's experiential, that we have to make this transition to prepare for what's next. Now, people, you when I ever talk about this, I try not to talk about it too much because people start raising their eyebrows and go, that's the end of this podcast. This guy believes in some, you know, wacky, mystical future or whatever. No, I just look at the facts and the data and maybe not the facts, but the evidence, let's put clues, I call them clues. Let's look at the clues about this. So the fact that we repeat history again and again, both as individuals and societies is a clue, right? It tells us that life must be experienced. Why must life be experienced? Right? Well, if life is just this random thing, this random chemistry experiment, and there's really no point, then

then we could do anything we want, it doesn't really matter. And yet we are forced to experience this thing, to experience life and to grow. Everybody grows. We talked about consciousness a short time ago, how consciousness expands while our body is shrinking, literally physically shrinking and drying up, our consciousness is expanding, it's going in the opposite direction. So to me, putting all this together, there are so many clues that point to the fact that we are in preparation. Because if we weren't in preparation for something else, then we would also... It'd be much more advantageous to learn to have wisdom when we're young. So we've talked about this, right? If you have wisdom when you're young, you're not going to do stupid things. You're not going to jump off a cliff, 200 foot cliff into a body of water, the depth of which you don't, you're not sure of. You're not going to drive 100 miles an hour or more. You're not going to do all the things that young people do to take risks.

But let me ask, then if we're looking at it from the aerial view, if we're looking at it from the clues and whatever, is that not then a very selfish notion? In other words, if I'm only looking at it from my perspective rather than the larger view, am I not doing a great disservice to my community, to my neighborhood? I mean, I'm thinking about a story that I read just this morning about flooding, flooding in the poorest parts of our country. They're talking about flooding in a place that's near and to my heart, two places. One, the state of Kentucky, Eastern Kentucky in particular, and in West Virginia, they do a big story about McDowell County, West Virginia, which is a place that I spent a lot of time working on with food insecurity. And yet, those particular places flood year after year after year. Is there nothing we can do about it? History is repeating itself and repeating itself and repeating itself, and you have people who are being totally selfish about this and not doing something to fix the problem. So how do we turn the camera around and say, not help. How do we help so that history does not continue to repeat itself in those areas that are just poverty stricken? What do do about that?

Okay, well, just before we get into that specific question, you bring up the point of why are we, doesn't it sound selfish from the perspective we're talking about? Well, because it's just, it sounds that way, but it turns out to be the opposite. Because as you are making this, in order to prepare,

Yes.

which I believe life is preparation. think, again, just to reiterate, the reason is because we're stupid when we're young and we're smarter when we're old, and that's exactly backwards if longevity is the goal, right? If the idea is to live as long as possible, it is completely backwards. We should be way smarter when we're young and dumber when we're old. And people say, well, that's just not the way it works. Remember, this is only one of zillion universes. It could be different, right? We learned from quantum physics, it could be different. The world doesn't have to be this way. And there are probably other worlds that are different. But in our world, humans are stupid when we're young and smart when we're old. Exactly the opposite of what is most advantageous for an individual to survive. You are much better off being smart when you're young. By the time you're older, okay, you lose five years or something, you do something stupid, it's not a big deal. Do something stupid when you're 15, then that's a big deal. You've lost all that future. So that's another clue that tells us that life must be preparation, because that's why do we learn till the very end? Why do we continue to get smarter and learn more right to the very end, either until we get to be. until we die or get dementia or some other problem like that. But generally speaking, we are learning the whole way. It's completely backwards from what makes sense from a survival of a species, survival of the individual, know, the survival of the fittest. The fittest are the people that are smartest when they're young, right? They're not going to do as many stupid things. So it's backwards. Another clue, another clue that life is truly preparation because we're learning right through the end. What are we preparing for? For whatever comes next, which we've talked about, I have no idea. I do think it's going to be something that involves responsibility and utilizing all that we've learned. But in the meantime, we are during this transition, we are making this evolution from selfish to selfless to turn that camera around, just what you're talking about. And we've also talked many times about the the fact I was talking to my son about this, you know, what makes you the happiest in life?

And it turns out as you know better than anybody what makes you happiest in life, we talked about this a hundred times, is doing things for other people. When you do something for somebody else and their situation improves, you feel great. In fact, nothing makes you feel better. That's another big clue that says, aha, right? The thing that makes you feel great is helping other people. That must tell you that helping other people is the right thing to do, because nothing else makes you feel like it. So putting all this together, know, that we're dumb when we're young, that we repeat history again and again and again, we don't seem to, quote, as you said, learn anything, right? It's because life is experiential. It's because we must go through this, because the individual must prepare for whatever it is that's coming next. You can't read a book and prepare. You have to experience the ups and downs, all the emotions, everything that a human being goes through in their life, the great times and the horrible times.

Sure. Sure.

We want the horrible times to be really small in number and the great times to be really big in number. And for most people, that's fairly accurate, but there's a lot of people who have the exact opposite. Their life is just miserable for most of their life. Even they will have some upsides, good times, but still they suffer more than other people. Why that is, I have no idea. Nobody's ever explained that. I'm not sure there's an explanation. But anyway, so the point is about history. We repeat history because we have no choice to repeat history. It's part of the human, which is why I agree with this professor, it's part of our human, not just our nature, but why we're here. It's part of our purpose. We must experience life to prepare for whatever's coming. And there's no getting around that, which is why we're going to repeat the same things our parents did and our grandparents did and human beings from centuries past. It's why we can read Hamlet and relate to it or any other Shakespeare play and relate to it or Jane Austen and relate to it or go back to, you know, the Iliad and the Odyssey. We can relate to these challenges that in trials. So because there's a commonality, we can read stories from the dawn of man. It will be the same story. The story never changes. Only the set changes. So we can study history to a blue in the face. It's not going to change what we do as individuals by and large. we can soften the edges somewhat. And we probably do. We are actually less violent now than we were a thousand years ago. So that's a good thing. But we're still violent. We still do terrible things to one another.

Probably yeah.

But anyway, that's the long and short of it. That's why we repeat history, because we have no choice. We don't have the option not to.

But that's individuals. what happens when we talk about the collective? But if we know that and if it is distressing, what do do to change it? How do we change it? Or can we change it?

and societies.

Well, that's why we are. Well, this is a very fair question. You know, if if if if I didn't think we could change it, I wouldn't be writing books and doing this podcast with my lovely friend, Enid, and we wouldn't be doing these things because we don't need to hear ourselves talk. You know, we're trying to in some way move that needle just a little bit to to say you're here to help other people. You have a purpose in this life. That's what it is. You know, treat people kindly with respect. Help as many people as you can. All that. So, yeah. Do I think we can change it? Well, I'll tell you this very honestly. I'm a very optimistic person. I do believe we can change it, but I'm also not a moron. And I do understand that, hmm, for the last 200,000 years or so, this is what's been going on again and again and again. So what makes me think that I or you and me together or a whole group of people can really change this, right? Because... If you're really objective about it, you say, good luck, but you're not going to succeed. So there's two answers that I give myself. One is, well, I got to keep trying because even though something's never happened before, something can happen. know, nobody hits 60 home runs till Babe Ruth, right? And then nobody hit 70 something till that juiced up guy hit a lot more or whatever, or Alex Ovechkin.

Yeah, yeah, right. So they invented steroids. Yeah, yeah.

or Alex Ovechkin just scored his 900 goals, you know, right? So things do happen for a first time. So that's why that's the optimist. mean, say, okay, maybe it didn't happen before, but it doesn't mean we can't have it or, or the other side is, well, whoever's running the show, if you believe in a deity or whatever.

Yes he did. Yes he did.

saying, well, no, no, no, sorry. We appreciate the effort, but everybody's got to go through this. There's no shortcuts. Sorry. So give it your best shot, but it's not going to change. And I struggle with those two explanations. They're a bit troubling to me.

Yeah, and I've become actually, ironically, somewhat more optimistic because I think just in my little universe, I see people trying to make a difference. I see people who are trying to feed people who would otherwise go hungry, and that gives me some hope. I see people who are trying to make lives better for even the people who are incarcerated, and that gives me hope. So I'm actually more optimistic now than I've been in a long time. I'm not sure why, but I... Interestingly, that great learned man, Karl Marx, whom I never usually like to quote, he said, to draw attention to the truth, that when history repeats itself the first time, it's a tragedy. But when it repeats itself again, it becomes almost comical, because people still haven't learned the lesson. And it's true. I mean, we have to learn the lesson, but we have to do it singularly. We have to realize, I, I, I, can make a difference. And maybe in so doing, I can affect other people. And even if I bring one more person along with me on this ride of kindness, then maybe that is my purpose. And maybe that's what I'm preparing for, maybe preparing the next generation for. I keep going back to a conversation you and I had not that long ago about the happiness study that they conducted at Cornell. And I kept thinking about that and thinking about that, that this professor gave these students some money to go out and do something. And I thought, well, it shouldn't be about money. But then I got to thinking, why not? Whatever the impetus is to make people understand that they can be kinder to other people and in so doing be kind to themselves and bring joy and happiness, then why not? And so I go back to that study and say, maybe we should replicate that study. Let's talk to younger people about trying to make them understand their role in their society. I don't know, maybe I'm Pollyanna, but today I feel like Pollyanna.

I look at no, it's a lovely thought. And that's why that's why we're doing this. No, no. But you know, I get accused of that all the time. Right. Because I do believe that even though it's never worked before, it could work this time. So, you know, the only place I would differ with, well, not the only difference, car mocks on a lot of things. Car mocks is a smart guy. went absolutely there's a lot of brilliant people that went down the absolute wrong road. Right. There are so many of them. We see them today. Right. Plenty of smart people who get it who are getting it completely wrong. So I think, yes, as we said, nothing makes you happier than

Yes, right.

That's right. You bet. You bet.

helping other people. That is the greatest source of joy. Once you do it once, it becomes addicting, which is what you spent your life doing. And I've tried, right? Because I know how great it feels. I know how wonderful it feels. I was having lunch with a former colleague of mine. We were residents together, you know, back at the turn of the first 19th century. But, and we were talking about, we just called each other a couple of anecdotes where patients had contacted us.

Yeah

out of nowhere and said, by the way, I just have to tell you, you don't remember me, but you did this and you changed my life. And so you hear one story like that and you go, well, the whole thing's worth it, right? And if you're lucky enough to hear it more than once, that's even better. So we know that helping other people is the greatest source of joy. And that's how we know that's our purpose. That's it. Nothing makes you happier than that. That's telling you something. That's why you're here. That's what he's supposed to do. So Karl Marx is saying, gee, the first time we get it wrong, OK, shame on me, right? First time is shame on you. The second time is shame on me, right? Like I'm not learning anything. OK, but Karl, generation after generation, doesn't transfer. The knowledge doesn't transfer because each human has to go through this evolution by themselves. But we can redirect them. So for instance, anti-Semitism back on the rise in this country. Who would have thought it, right? So I mean, but the answer to who would have thought it is everybody should have thought it. Because what makes us think America is unique in the history of the world? So anti-Semitism has been around for thousands of years. And yet you see the same conspiracy theories, the same idiotic, insulting conspiracy theories and degradation of a class of people. It's always wrong. This time we're talking about anti-Semizes, but it could be any group. We've seen it. The Jews have had it for the longest time because they've been around the longest time, but they're certainly not unique in the fact that as a persecuted group. And it's always the same thing. It's the scapegoating. It's the jealousy. It's the same thing again. So what I would say to those people is to say, okay, pay attention. Why are you here? You're not here for power or money to put people down, to hurt people, to create violence. You're here to help as many people as you can. You've got it 180 degrees backwards. Love the person you think you hate. Meet people. When you meet people who are of a different religion, different culture, different ethnicity, and you get to know them, you go, oh, I like this person, right? He or she is pretty good. In fact, we have a lot in common, right? Maybe we eat different foods or we worship a different, we read a different book in terms of our worship or whatever, but...

By and large, we're kind of looking for the same things in life and most people are good. once you, so when you see something like anti-Semitism rear its head again, again, history repeating itself, it's always the same reasons. It's the same human story at play. It's the same weakness. It's the same jealousy. It's the same. search for power, the ability to, if you can put your foot on the neck of somebody, you automatically feel better, more powerful. But that's a losing proposition that will never grant you happiness, individually or certainly as a society, but even individually. You're making a big mistake because you will end up at the end of your life unfulfilled, unhappy, and have wasted the time that you were given.

Yeah, and that's why I started this podcast with telling you about the story that last night when I went to that synagogue, not to pray, but to listen to music. And having been searched and sitting in the sanctuary before the concert began, I sat there and I thought to myself, this should be a safe space. This should be a place where people come together, not in this instance, not necessarily to worship, but to listen to and enjoy music. And yet we were stopped at the door because we were not in a place that is now deemed safe. We were in a place that is now deemed unsafe. And how sad is that, that our houses of worship have become unsafe places. It just made me very sad. was just, the music brought me up, but it was a very sad night. I want to, you mentioned the old adage that those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. And I read something that said, they were talking about that very adage and they said, sure, it's a little dramatic. And you wouldn't be blamed for letting loose a loud sigh and eye roll if someone said it to you in a preachy way. But the man who wrote these words had a good point. Continuity is necessary to progress. Or in normal people words, we must remember stuff from our past in order to do better in the future. And I think that's true. That's why this conversation about history repeating itself is important, because we need to do better. I'll leave you with the final words. Yes.

Yeah, so I look at that statement, I go, that's nice, but it's wrong. It's just wrong because look at the history of mankind, humankind. It's clearly not true. As much as we should, as much as we want to, to learn from history.

Why is that wrong? Why?

We can learn some things and hopefully make minor improvements along the but the story of human life isn't changing, right? Life is experiential. It must be lived. It must be experienced. You can't get it out of a book. You can't get it from reading a history book or watching a Ken Burns series. You can't do it. They're interesting. Knowledge is power. I'm all for learning history. Everybody should learn it. But don't be deluded into thinking that learning history is going to prevent the next catastrophe, the next Hitler, the next

No question, no question. Markekleinmd (28:50.7) It's not, unless the only way it will is when people understand what the aerial view is showing us, that you are here for a purpose, that there is meaning, that that meaning is to evolve from selfish to selfless, from inward to outward focus. And the proof of that is that you feel the best when you do good for others. That's the way we change it, not by learning history. Learning history will not solve this problem. But understanding how the world works and why we're here from the aerial view, that is the solution. And that's why I remain optimistic. And that's why somebody will one day score a thousand goals in the NHL and somebody will hit a hundred home runs and something will happen that's never happened before. And that's why we do this. Because once you understand this perspective from the aerial view, that's when you don't have to worry about repeating history. You just have to worry about knowing why you're here and doing the right thing.

And that's the purpose of the podcast. And I thank you. We do this every week for those very reasons, because it is about what we do, what we do on our own level to change things. So I appreciate it. I thank you for your time. I thank our listeners for their time. I know I'm looking at the time and we've run out of it. It goes fast, doesn't it?

We can make more, can we make more?

Yeah, we can change that. We can change the clock. In fact, they do that in the Congress. They actually can, they stop the clock and they keep going. But it's been a pleasure. Tell everybody where to write to. We're getting lots of cards and letters and thoughts and emails and things. And we have, the other thing we're doing lately is we're having some guests on and that's really exciting. We've got a guest coming up that we're very excited about.

Yeah, next week we have Dr. Jonathan Reiner, the professor of cardiology and surgery at George Washington University Hospital, who's also with Dick Cheney's physician and will be speaking at his memorial and is also a CNN medical analyst. So that'll be fun. And we have a couple of this coming up. Anyway, if you want to have a question, anything you want us to talk about, just email us at question at wisdomfromtheaerialview.com. Anyway, thank you all for listening. In it, great as always. Thanks a million. Bye-bye, everybody.

Yes, he's a hero.

Yes.

Thank you. Peace.