Episode 37: Meaning and Purpose

Welcome to wisdom from the aerial view the podcast for those who wish to learn how to crush their anxiety and Find meaning and purpose in their lives. Good morning. Good afternoon. Dr. Klein mark. How are you?

and good to see you. How are you?

It's good. I'm very good. Thanks. You know, today, and we should tell our listeners that before we do this, we say, what are we going to talk about today? And I said, well, this one's right up your alley because this is exactly what we've been saying for this entirety of all this many, many weeks of the podcast about meaning and purpose in their lives. And I kept thinking about the whole notion of purpose and meaning and passion and mission. And while I don't want this to be the Victor Frankl podcast, although that's not a bad idea. We've been talking about Victor Frank Lollat and I wanted to read something he talks about meaning. And he said, outside of man's main concern of avoiding pain and pursuing pleasure, above all else, man seeks meaning to his life and is ready and willing to suffer for it on the condition to be sure it has a potential purpose. And so I've been thinking about the whole notion of what's the difference between meaning and purpose. In my line of work, interestingly enough, we always look at mission statements and vision statements and all that. And I always thought, what does that all mean? What's the mission statement? What's the vision statement? What is all that? So meaning, seems to me, answers the fundamental question, why do I care? What inspires me? What are my desires? Is it fame? Is it recognition? Is it money? And I think that meaning is about that you care about something, but it doesn't tell you what to do about it. And I think that's what purpose is. Purpose tells you what to do about it, what to do in life. So I wanted to have a kind of a deep dive today about meaning and purpose. You talk about it a lot. What's the difference to you? And is there a difference to you about meaning and purpose?

Well, as you didn't tell our listeners, once again, you didn't tell me what we were going to talk about, even like a minute before we started.

It's better this way, yeah. It's enough time, come on, yeah.

Yes. So I'm actually glad we're talking about this because I was thinking about something along the same lines in the last couple of days. So what's in between meaning and purpose? You know, it's like a vision stage or a mission statement. I don't know. mean, we could we could we could parse these words. could make believe we're John McWhorter or some linguist and.

Yeah.

Right.

I don't think it would help anybody and we'd be making it up on the fly anyway. So let's just be honest. We don't have a clue. No, we have a clue, it just doesn't matter. Right. So what people want to know is A, am I here for a reason? B, what is that reason? See, what am I supposed to do to accomplish whatever this mission is? Right. And of course, the alternative is there's no purpose, there's no meaning. It's just a chemistry experiment. hear ashes to ashes, dust to dust, and that's it. And as I've...

Yeah. Yeah.

told many people, including you, that I can't prove to you that the latter is not true, that there is no meaning, there is no purpose, it's ashes to ashes, dust to dust, we're just a chemistry experiment. I can't prove that that's not true, right? Nobody can prove that. But it seems to me that there's enough evidence that says that's not true from all the things we've talked about. And even if it... it certainly doesn't help anybody to assume it's not true. In fact, we can't possibly exist as a species and societies if we just think it's a chemistry experiment. Then it's total chaos. And then there's no reason not to push the button and start a nuclear war. There'd be no reason not to do that because I'm mad at you. So I'm going to blow up your country. Then you blow up my country. And so if there's no meaning or purpose, if they're not here for a reason, if it's just randomness, then it doesn't matter what happens. But we have decided, many of us, including you and me, that there's enough evidence that we've talked about that indicates that that's not likely, that they're much more likely as meaning and purpose. there's thousands and thousands of years of cultural history, religious history, that kind of reiterates this conundrum, but also reaches a similar conclusion that there is a reason. So we have decided, at least I've decided and dragged you along with me. that our mission is to make that evolution from selfish to selfless, from inward to outward focused. And that's our goal, to prepare ourselves for whatever comes next. So, know, some people will believe it, some people won't believe it, it's okay. People are entitled to believe whatever they want. But that's what I've come to after many years and we've been through why many times. So here's what I was thinking about, which kind of dovetails it. So it's quite frank, quite interesting to me that I was literally just thinking about this yesterday and this morning. And we haven't talked, so you would have no idea what I was talking about, what I was thinking about. But why bother to, why is it so important for us to work hard to accomplish things, to teach our children to accomplish things? So for instance, I was thinking of my kids and my grandchildren. I've had four kids and I've been very fortunate. They're all really good people and they're very successful in what they do in many ways. Very proud of them.

I spent a lot of time convincing him to work hard, to study hard, to be good people, do all these things. It takes a lot of time over many years. I actually loved it. on what basis was I making that case? If it's just be nice to people and be kind and generous and help other people and... go from selfish to selfless, then why exactly do you have to actually, why am I bothering to push my kids, or not push them, because I didn't push them, but to demonstrate that there is a reason for them to excel at whatever they do, to be the best they can. We talked about quiet quitting, why it's exactly the wrong philosophy, because you're only hurting yourself. So how do these two things dovetail? How does the need and the requirement to make that evolution to help other people. How does that dovetail with... maybe having a career or being the best you can or whatever job you have. You don't have to be, I don't care what job you do. I I have an electrician coming in tomorrow and he's a great guy. I really like this guy. You know how I am with these people who I get to meet. They all become my friends, right? I do. I like them all. so impressed because they can do all these things that I have no idea how to do. This guy's super smart. He's from Hungary actually. Very, very smart guy. And I really, really, I get excited when he's coming, not because he's putting up a lamp or something or a light fixture, because I like talking to him. He's such an interesting guy.

Yes, you befriend them. Yes, yes.

Anyway, but I'm amazed how smart he is and how good he is at solving these problems. So he is literally, in my view, a star electrician, right? So there's no difference between me, between a star electrician and a star doctor. You, I know, feel differently, but I see it the same way. We're all, you know, yeah, you gotta do the best you can. I don't blame you, I do too, actually, you know.

No, I certainly feel the same way. In fact, I like electricians better than doctors.

I thought you were going to say like dogs better than people, which is what I was thinking this morning. But I had a dog, we had a dog visiting this weekend. love it. They're such a sweet dog. Anyway, to get back to the thing. So anyway, I was thinking about why is it important to excel at what you do to become the best you possibly can? And how does that mesh with the mission? Because I could see people saying, wait a minute, wait a minute, a minute. If the mission is just to become a really good person and help as many people as you can, like you have done and continue to do in your life, why isn't that good enough? Why do you have to get

That's true too.

why do you have to work hard to become expert at whatever field you've chosen to enter, no matter what it is, sales, construction, electricity, it doesn't matter, right? Doctor, lawyer, whatever it is. So why is that so important? And we have talked about this before, but I think it's worth revisiting in light of the question you asked me, right? Because it does run into meaning and purpose. if today a child is born, if they can understand the road ahead of them. If they had the ability to understand and you could sit down and say, OK, look, baby, you're very cute. Just stop crying for a minute. I want to explain something to you. So here's what you're going to do in your life, right? You're going to try really hard to become a person of substance and to become a person of substance, you have to get good at some things. You have to learn. You have to make, continue to improve and get very, very good at whatever it is you really like to do, whether it's sports or business or medicine or law or construction or electrician. or plumbing, whatever it is, you have to get really good at it that's how you become a person of substance. And while you're doing that, you have to learn to focus on other people's well-being instead of your own because A, you're going to feel a lot better when you're not focusing on your own situation. When the camera is turned inward, it's very easy to get sad or unhappy or disappointed in who you are or where you are in your life. Whereas if you turn the camera outward and you're always focusing on other people, you don't have that problem. Plus you get the added extra point benefit of feeling great every time you help somebody. So that's formula. Okay, let's go over that again. Become the best person you can be at whatever you choose to do. Work hard, learn whatever trade or whatever job you want. Become the best you can at that. And anything you do, become the best you can. And then at the same time, remember that it's not about you. It's about other people. And you're trying to be by, by working hard to learn and achieve, you're becoming a person of substance. And that's what you have to become to be able to do, to make that evolution from selfish to selfless. That's how the two are tied in.

And the earlier we teach, obviously you can't teach a newborn, but you can start teaching kids pretty young. I got a lot of experience in this. You can teach them pretty young, just the basics. I think I told you, I told one of my grandsons about the Viktor Frankl rule. And I already saw it have an effect. And he's seven, he just turned eight years old. And he's going to hear it from me again. But he doesn't, he's already got it. I mean, he's got to practice it and I'll remind him, but the idea was already in his head. Well, wow. The fact that you are in control of how you feel at eight years old. Yeah, you got to practice it. It's going to take time. But to understand it at a young age, you know, take a few years to learn it, get you good at it. But, you you're golden once you do that. So that's the idea. So that's how I think these two concepts go together. So meaning and purpose encompass all these things, right? It encompasses the individual, the striving to become a person of substance and to then focus, turn the camera around and focus on other people.

But I want to say something, I want to think this through. Because if in your life you're constantly turning the camera on someone else, are you not in many respects ignoring yourself?

Okay, that's a great question. So I think that's why I said you had to become a person of substance. in the developmental phase of your life, and it can last forever in a sense, you're always trying to improve, but obviously the graph is very steep in the beginning and then it kind of flattens out as you get older because you don't have that much more that you have to. you know, to improve in that sense. certainly, so in the beginning, you have to focus on yourself in the sense that not focus on yourself, but dedicate yourself. Focus yourself not on yourself, but on what it is you're trying to accomplish. So when we were in school and we went to a high achieving high school and lots of people were learning and studying and trying to get good grades and, you know, to just, and we've talked about this, why do you get good grades? It's just the beginning of learning how to be committed to doing the best you can at things. So when you were a student, I used to tell my kids, your job is to do the best you can at school, right? My job, I'm a doctor, I got to do the best I can with the patients. But your job right now, you do have a job, right? You know, your job is to educate yourself and improve yourself and start on that road to becoming a person of substance. And right now your job is school. You've got to learn and you've got to study and you've got to produce so that you can feel that sense of accomplishment, that self-esteem. So yes, you are focused on yourself in the sense you demanding things of yourself requiring things of yourself but never do you say me me me me and the heck with everybody else

Yes, but you know, I've been working for many, many months, maybe a couple of years now on the issue of suicide, suicidal ideation, and those kinds of things. And what strikes me about that is that there is a mental health crisis all over the world right now. And these are people who are maybe not focusing as much on their own wellness as something else. And one of the reasons that there is so much suicidal ideation is because of the feeling of being worthless, of having no No mission, no goal, no purpose. And what concerns me the most about that is that the notion of inward to outward, et cetera, et these are folks that we've really got to reach, that they do have meaning, that you have purpose. I'll tell you, it was a fascinating article in the New York Times yesterday written by Robert Putnam and Richard Reeves. are Putnam, you might, our listeners might recall, wrote Bowling Alone. Mr. Reeves wrote of boys and men, why the modern male is struggling, why it matters and what to do about it. It's all about young boys. What's happening to boys in our culture that they're beginning to think that they are not worthy of things. And they talk in here, if I might, one quick second here. They're talking about what's going on in California. Governor Newsom signed an executive order that was hard to imagine a few months ago. It offers a comprehensive plan to tackle what it describes as California's growing crisis of connection and opportunity for men and boys. Mr. Newsom said that the order was about showing every young man that he matters and that there's a path for him, purpose, dignity, work, and real connection. And it is concerning and disconcerting that there are those among us who feel that they have no purpose in life. And I think what your book is striving for, what you're striving for as a practitioner, it to show us that we all have meaning, we just have to find that. Isn't that, is that true?

Yeah, that's what I just said. Like I said, take that infant and the kids as long as you can and say, OK, here's the story, right? You got to get as good as you can at something because that's going to give you self esteem. So why do you have to become really good at something? You you and I say, well, it's the right thing to do. Who wants a doctor who doesn't care? Who wants a plumber who doesn't care? OK, but there's a better reason because it's hard to convince people of this. you know, I hope whatever this law that Governor Newsom has endorsed makes a difference. I'm not sure how it's going to actually do that. But having said that, if heart's in the right place,

It's an executive order, anyway, yeah, go ahead.

Whatever it is, you have to convince, you have to explain, not convince, you have to explain to kids that there is a roadmap, there is a game plan, right? If you want to have self-esteem, you have to do something. You can't deliver it to kids. One of the things we've done in our society in the last 50 years is we've been delivering self-esteem like it was a basket of fruit, right? Show up at the soccer field. You don't really have to be very good, but you're to get a trophy at the end. Don't worry about it, right? And we've done that and we've done that in schools where we're graduating kids who can't read. We're saying, don't have to read, we just push you through the system, it's fine. So when a kid does that, who goes through the system and really doesn't know how to read or read efficiently or can't do math, well, he's gonna say, and it's mostly boys now, so I'm using he. is that I'm worthless. I'm stupid. I'm dumb. I can't do this. I can't do that. I'm useless. And then, OK, either I'll commit to crime or I'll kill myself. Those sounds like two pretty good options. Well, of course, what do you expect? Which you have to say to the kids from the very beginning and say, no, no, there is a meaning, there is purpose. Here's what it is. But to get there, you have to become a person of substance. To get there, you have to have self-esteem. To get the self-esteem, you actually have to accomplish things. And when you do, you're going to feel like a million dollars. You can't give people self-esteem. see right through it. It doesn't work. So you can dole it out like ice cream but they realize it's garbage and they don't have that self-esteem they need. People with high self-esteem and who have a vision of their of the purpose in their lives don't commit suicide. That's not the model of people who commit suicide, right? People who suicide are just what you said. don't have purpose, they have meaning, they don't have a place, they don't have worth. We talked one of the last couple of episodes about how reality is created and how I said we don't have to say that everybody's important in this world. The proof is in the pudding. Everybody contributes to reality. We've went through that. People can go back and listen to the episode a couple of, I don't remember what it was, a couple ago.

we talked about that. So by definition, everybody has worth because everybody contributes to reality. But that's not enough, right? You have to build, we have to construct people, you know, a society. If you want to have a healthy society where people are not committing suicides and not committing crimes, you have to build it. It has to be constructed. the way you construct it is to explain to young children, you have a purpose in life, you have a meaning in life, there's a reason you're here. And you have to become a person of substance and you have to do it through building a college. And now we're going to help you do that. We're going to educate you, we're going to give you jobs, we're going to give you challenges. You have to jump over the hoop. know, the president just reinstituted what you and I remember as the president of physical fitness test. And I remember when we grew up, we all did it and we laughed about it and some of us did well and some of us just couldn't get over that, couldn't do a pull-up and, you know, but everybody recognized it as if you could do it. That was a sense of self-esteem, right? So it doesn't sound like a big deal, but every time you can generate self-esteem, it is a very big deal. So I'm all for setting out some obstacles for kids to climb over. It's good for them. That's how they get confident, that's how they get self-esteem, and that's how they get on a roll towards having a fulfilling life that does not end in suicide. You know, you've me say this, Enid. You know, if you really love people, like you and I really love people, both of us do, right? And so we tend to tell people the truth and we tend to not let them off the hook, but we want to help them along the way.

People who just give platitudes and make statements and whether they're politicians or whoever, they don't love people. If they loved them, they would tell them the truth and they would help them overcome the difficulty and they'd show them how. And that's what we have to do in our society. We can't just hand things out like, hand out self-esteem like it's no big deal. It doesn't work. And you end up with high levels of suicide, especially among men and boys. You end up with a whole generation or two of boys who feel worthless, like you just said. these are solvable problems, not on the government level, right? It's on the family level, on a smaller community level, where we really do help these kids in a very positive way, do the kind of things we're talking about.

Well, I still believe that there are two Americas and we're talking about those who are able and lucky enough to be able to talk to someone about purpose and their meaning, cetera. But there's another America and that is those who are people who living in poverty, those who have suffered great tragedy. and it's more difficult for them. One of the things that I've been involved in is older adult suicide. And these are people who might have, usually men, older men, who might have led a very good purposeful life. At the end of their lives, when they get to their late 80s, when they've lost a spouse, they've lost their job, they have nothing, these are people who feel all of a sudden they don't have purpose in their lives. And so we're finding something rather unique here, and that is, that this sense of purpose, this sense of mission, this sense of meaning, all of a sudden is gone. It's lost, and they're lost. And these are folks who are then dying by suicide. So I think it's something that needs to be thought through and figured out. I don't know, I don't have an answer. I wish I did have an answer. What's the answer?

Yes you do. Yes you do. Yes you do. You have the answer. Okay. So you're you. Do you think you have meaning and purpose at this point in your life? No, no, no.

I hope so. It changes every day, but yes. I do.

No, you do, right? And so I call you and you say, well, I got to go to the senior center. I got to help feed this helps the seniors and and I'm working on senior hunger and I'm I'm I want to help these people have some people they can talk to and I want to keep them company so they feel connected.

Yeah.

Okay, well, you're not a teenager, right? So you're right. You're not in your late eighties, but you're not a teenager. And so you have figured it out. You already know, right? You're never going to get to that point. it doesn't, that's where the turning the camera around is. a, when the camera is focused on ourselves, almost at any age, unless things are going great, which they only do for short bursts, they don't last, right? We go, our lives are up and down all the time, right? If you're depending on that hit of dopamine to make you feel good,

You noticed.

That's not sustainable. So what you do, you set the example. You've been doing this forever and you're still doing it. That's the answer, right?

Yes, but you and I have lived a privileged life. We have... come on. Excuse me? Really?

come on. I don't believe that. I don't believe that. No, you're not doing this because you are not super wealthy. You don't have houses in different jurisdictions. No, but...

No, no, no, but that doesn't matter. I don't judge myself by wealth. just, but we've grown up, you and I had the luxury of living in a two parent family. We've both been to college and graduate school and you even beyond grad, I mean, you went, so we've had things that those people that I've been working with for 40 years don't. Now that doesn't mean that my vision, my purpose is any more important than theirs is. My point of all this is that, Sometimes you lose the sense of self. You lose your sense of purpose. You lose your sense of mission. And the issue is trying to get that back. How do we do that?

But OK, so. by doing exactly what you do. You are doing it. No, no, no, no. that's how you get every... My uncle who died last year, exactly a year ago, at 103 and change. So you know what he did? Right until he couldn't do it anymore, he would go to the senior center.

Yeah, but I'm not worried about me. I'm worried about yes, yes, yes.

Mm-hmm.

or to senior living situations, assisted living places. And at the age of 100, we'd go sit with these people. He'd sing with them. He'd talk to them. You know, he gave up within the last six months of life because he had fallen and fractured his pelvis, amazingly survived at the age of 101, and then fell again and had a head injury. Not serious enough that he lost cognition, but

Yeah.

Again, really slow down. It was only in the last few months he said to me, you know, Mark, said, I'm 103, I've had enough. You know, now it's too hard. up until then, he was going to the senior center and and spending time with these people. So what did he know? He knew that socialization is critical and B, turning the camera on somebody else. I say, Uncle Bernie, how do you feel? I'm fine, I'm fine. You just fractured your pelvis. it's okay, I'll be all right. He was never focused on himself, right? He complained for like a minute and then he'd say, he would say, sorry, I'm fine. And I'm going to, I'm going later to the senior center or whatever, right?

That's it, yes.

He focused on other people, right? And that's what kept him going. That socialization, it's not just the socialization, it's the outward focus socialization. That other people have it worse, other people have difficulties, other people are sad, and if I can help them through it, it's not about privilege. Anybody can do this. People do it, and you know better than anybody. People, I've had, you know how many patients I've seen, and a lot of them were poor. Probably at least half, right? To some level or another. And, you know, I remember the things they would do for their families and their communities. And that's where they got their joy. And yeah, OK, they weren't living in fancy houses, luckily they lived in this country and most of them were, you know, they were doing well enough to have a house and a place to live and something to eat. But these weren't wealthy people. These people had very, very little. But where did their joy come? Going to church on Sunday. They loved being part of their church group. Maybe they were in the choir. They loved spending time with their families, their communities. So it's the same story. It doesn't matter what your socioeconomic status is. You have to have that socialization and that sense of helping others.

I've got to stop you. When I said privilege, it doesn't mean wealth. I don't mean wealth. I think we are privileged to age. I believe that. I believe we are privileged. So no, so I did not mean wealth. It has zero to do with wealth. And I think that we had more Uncle Bernie's in the world. And the question is, how do we get the average guy on the street to have the mindset that Uncle Bernie had? That's kind of good.

Okay, that's a different story, then I apologize. Okay.

Yeah, well, you're doing your part, that's for sure. you you're there all the time. you know, hopefully, you know, you and I both try and of course I have.

trying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

I look at what you do and have done. I've said this a million times and you're probably sick of it. No, listen, it's probably sick of it, but you're an amazing person. You've walked the walk, you've dedicated your life to helping other people. yeah, I've tried to do the same, but you've actually, think we tend to look at other people and think, well, I'm okay, but they're way better than me. I do look at what you've done and the dedication you've had and it's super impressive. the point is, you know what works. You know what makes you feel good what your purpose is. And so this keeps you motivated. You started a new nonprofit at an age where most people would be sitting on the veranda. So, yeah. So, I mean, yeah, but that's how you do it. But you have to start early. So your focus has been on the elderly, which is fantastically wonderful. But this is a lifelong thing. It has to start when people, kids are very young.

I should. I should be sitting on the veranda, believe me, yeah.

You know, we look at these communities, a lot of the communities in our inner cities where kids don't have two parents, they're lucky to have one parent, they're lucky to have a parent who's not on drugs or in jail. that's out. I don't know I tell you the story. I think I did. But I was in I was giving a lecture. couple of weeks ago, actually out in Las Vegas, my least favorite place on the planet, but I was giving a medical lecture and I a cab driver. Did I tell you this story? It's such a good story. This cab driver pulls up, hop in, and know, man start chatting with the cab driver, my wife and I are in the cab. This guy's from originally from the Bronx, right? And Hispanic origin and we're chatting. He's in his fifties now.

No, no.

Huh.

And we're chatting, chatting, chatting, chatting. So we get out of the cab and my wife goes into the place and I'm still chatting with the guy. And finally she kind of rolls her eyes because she knows I tend to do this. And we talked for a couple more minutes. It was great. And he tells me a bit about his history, but not that much. And I don't know, we just talked about general stuff and I wanted to get to know him a little bit. Fast forward the next day, right? We're coming out of another meeting and I got to get a cab. It's 106 degrees. And who pulls up at the exact same cab driver in Las Vegas? mean, you know how many cab drivers there are in Las Vegas? He goes, Doc, how you doing? And I said, you know, I said his name. I said, we start chatting. So this time we pull up to the hotel, he takes us back. My wife knows better. She goes in. He starts telling me the story of his life. Grew up in the South Bronx. Both his parents were drug addicts. He was out on the street. He was hungry. He said, let's just say I did a lot of bad things. He didn't want to tell me what they were. And I didn't obviously ask, but he said, I did a lot of bad things. But now, you know, I have my own kid now and, and, you know, I've tried to do the right thing now. And he's getting me through his whole story. And I'm amazed by this story. It's not, but I'm only amazed because I've watched, you get to see the evolution, right? So, you we talked some more. think I gave him, I told him to listen to the podcast or I gave him a copy. I don't remember. It's something like that. just, but I'm looking at this guy thinking, holy mackerel, what a story, right? This kid had nothing. had no parents. He had no family, had nothing. Okay. He might not have achieved as much as he would have liked in his life, but he's, he's, he's, he's okay. He's happy where he is. I said, How much do you work? He said seven days a week. I said, my gosh. He said, no, work is great. I enjoy it. get to meet people, you know, we talked for 15 minutes. I you have to go work. to stop talking to me, right? But it was...

If you take time to talk to people, the door opens a crack and you look inside and there's a warehouse of information, right? It's fascinating. Everybody's got a story. 100 % of people on this planet have a story and it's fascinating in one way or another. Well, that is the clue, man. That is the clue to say, wow, there is purpose, there is meaning. Look at this. Look at this evolution of this person. Holy crap. And it just reinforced what I already knew, what I already believed, right? There is purpose, there is meaning. It is not a chemistry experiment. It is not race. And when you look at somebody like this, and I look back and I go, imagine what he could have accomplished if he had at least one parent who wasn't a drug addict or somebody who could feed him and house him and teach him, know, teach him the things that we just talked about, about what life is all about and how you need to constantly improve yourself to become a person of substance. Nobody told him that. He was all by himself. And it's a tragedy. So. Anyway, I know we have to wrap up, but the point I'm trying to make is that the earlier we teach people these lessons as kids, the better off they're going to be and the better off our society is going to be. And it's just, the greatest thing we can do.

It's a good note to end on. would say maybe his education was better than ours. Street education, maybe better than ours. Anyway, thank you for this. I think it's important to think about purpose and meaning. And then the one thing we didn't talk about, but I think it goes with this, is the word passion. You have to be passionate about what you're doing for it to really take off. I believe that with all my heart. I believe if you're doing something and you're not passionate about it, do something else. And interestingly enough, I looked this up, that the literal meaning of passion is to suffer. Interesting. Anyway, I will leave it on that. I'll leave us to hang in on that one. We should. I think it's fascinating. Again, it gets back to the Viktor Frankl rule. All of this is interesting. It's interwoven. It's important. And everybody, and you're right, everybody has a purpose. Everybody has a mission and everybody has value and everybody has worth. I'll leave it, and there's no.

can talk about, let's talk about that next time, right? Yeah.

100%.

No two ways about it. You have the final word, Go right ahead.

There is no two ways, no two ways about it. Everybody has value. Everybody has a purpose and everybody counts and they count because they contribute because reality is created by the intersection of all the choices, decisions each of us make. cannot get away from that. Everybody counts. And what we want is to everybody to have the opportunity to have a life where they don't end up thinking, how am going to kill myself? And it's not that hard, right? We just have to care. We have to love people. We have to care for each other. And if we do that and we focus on the younger people, I know you focus on older

You bet.

people but if we focus on the younger people the older people won't have a problem. that's what it anyway thank you so much as always love you and we'll see you all next time thank you for listening

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Thank you. I love you too. Peace.