Episode 36: Democracy from the Aerial View

Welcome to Wisdom from the Aerial View, the podcast for those who wish to learn about how to crush their anxiety and find meaning and purpose in their lives. Good morning, good afternoon. Mark, how are you today?

Great, Enid, how are you? You look good.

I'm very good. I wanted to do... Thank you. I wanted to do something different today. I'm going to tell you story. I have been reading actually an audiobook, which I don't usually do, but this is interesting. It's the Barbara Streisand book and it's almost a thousand pages and I wanted to hear her actually read it because she's one of my favorite people in the world and you know I sing just like her and... what did I do? But the book is fascinating. I've always been fascinated by her. And she, course, is famous for all sorts of things. And I couldn't wait to read about The Way We Were, about filming that, because I was in love with Robert Redford. And she was talking a lot about the song The Way We Were. And we all know that song, Memories, like the corners of my mind. And I kept thinking about memories. And I thought, let's talk about memories today. And I read a piece, and I told you a little bit about this, so I'm not surprising you too much, but I read a piece, I think it was the Washington Post, it must have been, and it was called What Alzheimer's Hasn't Taken From My Father. It was written by a man named Orly Peter, who's a neuro and clinical psychologist. I'd like to read a little bit to you and then talk a little bit about memories, because I have a lot of great memories with you. He writes, At 96, my father is one of the last living Holocaust survivors. He also has Alzheimer's. The disease has not brought him the forgetting that would be a gift to him. Alzheimer's progresses in a pattern that erodes the mind in reverse, stripping away recent memories first, then advancing into the regions that regulate emotion and suppress fear. Early memories, especially those charged with deep emotion, tend to last the longest. So now with his brains defenses weakened, the horrors he experiences as a child in a Jewish ghetto in Poland surged through him unfiltered. They come without warning, intruding, even in moments of joy, as if he's reliving them. My father was 11 when the Nazis invaded Poland and he had to start wearing a yellow Star of David on the front and back of his clothing so that it could be seen in both directions. He and about 200,000 Jews in Wocz

were eventually sealed off behind walls and barbed wire. In the ghetto, my father and his family faced starvation and disease and were forced into labor. My father worked in a shoe factory that supplied the German military. Dozens of his family members were tortured and killed. When I was with him recently in Israel, a friend of his were visiting with her two sons. My father chatted with them asking about their classes and then his eyes grew distant. he suddenly began to speak of his cousins Mirka and Ciuskos. His voice was cracking. He was flung back to 1942, grieving for his cousins who, the last time he saw them, were the same age as his friends' son. My father seemed to be back in the ghetto. This was the suffering he'd once learned to contain. He couldn't remember what was going on today, but he was back in the ghetto. This particular piece had a lot of meaning to me. It took place in a place called Włóż, Poland, which is actually where my mother's family came from. But the point of this is memories and what they do for us and what they do to us. So I thought, let's talk a little bit about memories and how do we escape the bad ones? Do we escape the bad ones? What do do about memories?

OK, well, since I wasn't prepared for this, was can we go back to can we go back to Barbra Streisand and the way we were for a minute? So I went to Union College in Schenectady, New York, and the way we were was filmed at Union College. And I remember when they were on set there and seeing them all and everybody was very excited to see Barbra Streisand. It's interesting you were listening to her book that's thousand pages. Wow, that's a long book.

tough one. Yeah, it's a tough one. I know. I know you were. But you and I have talked a lot about, Yes, yes.

That's what was filmed, I know, it filmed there. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

I have nothing else to do in my life. I'm just sitting around, reading.

Yeah, well, well, you know, you could have a root canal instead, because for me, that would probably be better than listening to a thousand pages of Barbra Streisand. But that's OK. All right. Back to the serious topic. The reason I joke around is because it was either that or I was going to cry over that story. It's it's so sad to have to have to live it once and then to relive it. You know, these memory diseases, Alzheimer's and all the all the dementias are.

Nah, no, this is... Nah, nah, Yeah. Enid (04:48.0) It's tough, yeah.

Yeah.

They're just on one level, obviously, very terrifying and sad for family members to watch. But they're also fascinating. They're fascinating to me because what in the world is going on? What is it about the way our brains work that creates memories, that... Enid (05:09.4) Right.

compartmentalizes memories. Different memories are in different places of the brain. They're all stuffed in a shoebox in one place in your brain. They're in different areas. Short-term memories in different places and long-term memory. It's really very fascinating. And when I think, so when I think about this, on the one hand, if you just look at it from the street view point of view, then you're gonna be upset. You're gonna be upset, A, that it could happen to you, B, that it's happening to your family member or friends.

A, that it could happen to you, B, that it's...

And certainly this traumatic story you just told, I did see the article. I actually didn't read it until you just read that portion to me. But to have to be stuck back in memories, it's almost like you're in a nightmare and you can't get out of it. know, many of us have nightmares. I'll tell you a story about my nightmares. So I don't have them often, but when I do, usually something terrible is happening to me. Somebody's chasing me, something bad is happening.

Certainly.

Bye.

Right.

And I, and the really bad ones, I tend to vocalize. so Deneen will, my wife, Deneen will reach over and, you know, shake me or grab my hand or something. And what happens is fascinating. I can see myself being pulled across a divide from the dream back to reality. It's a very visceral feeling of being literally pulled across a threshold. I can, I feel that, right?

So to me, you will.

See?

Hold.

a very visceral feeling of being literally pulled across the threshold. I feel that, right? And so it made me figure out what...

And so it made me think about what dreams are. I know we didn't want to talk about dreams today, but that wasn't the plan. But I think dreams have something, and memories are very interrelated. I think there are very similar processes that go on. Nobody really understands dreams. In one of my books, my fiction book, Franklin Rock, I wrote a chapter where Franklin Rock, the protagonist, goes back in time and meets Carl Jung, who is the master of dreams, obviously, and they have a fascinating conversation.

But think dreams have something, and memories are very...

Yeah.

It was so real that I had to remind myself that I actually wrote this, that this wasn't a real thing. Anyway, I know I'm conflating different things, but why we have memories, why we have dreams, these are very interesting questions. Yeah, we know we have them, but when you stop and go, well, why? Why do human beings have them? Well, animals have them too. We've all seen a dog, and also seen a dog dream, right? And they whimper often, they move their paws.

so real that I have to remind myself that I actually wrote this and this wasn't a real thing. Anyway, know I'm

Yes, yes, yes indeed.

So, know, the fact that all these animals have these things, it makes you think, well, why? Why do we have, what's the purpose of these things? Why do they exist? And even memories, you know, if you stop and think, well, sure, we remember things, but why do we remember things? Well, one, you could say, well, it's good to remember that a tiger can eat you. So the next time you see a tiger, you go, maybe I should run the other way or avoid it, certainly. So there are, obviously, or seem to be,

You go,

That's the right word. Evolutionary reasons for us to have memories. I don't know what the evolutionary reasons are. We should have dreams. you know, I don't know what to make of all this sometimes. But I do know that what I do think about is looking at these from a different perspective, from the aerial view. So, you know, we talked about last time, Victor Frankl, or a few episodes ago, we talked about Victor Frankl and

stationary.

I don't know what's... that what I do think about is looking at the... That's why I wanted to have this conversation. Good.

Mm-hmm.

You know, his tenant that we all have control of how we feel. Of course, we don't have control of how we feel when we're dreaming and we don't have control over our memories. So in this regard, this 96 year old Holocaust survivor, we can't really apply the Victor Frankl rule, meaning he gets to control how he feels because in this case, he doesn't seem to have that control, right? He doesn't have that ability. And.

Right.

That's what I was thinking about when you describe this, that, wow, you the one power that Viktor Frankl says can never be taken from us, evidently can be taken from us when we have, you know, this dementia. You know, I think I'm very fascinated, as I said, about dementia in general, Alzheimer's and other dementias in general, because I'm not sure what's going on. So on the one hand, let's take this to a broader topic, because I think it's very interesting.

Has been.

So on the one hand, let me see.

We talk about mission and purpose and why we're here and we're implying and when we imply that there's something we implied or I've more than implied, I've stated that I believe there's something after which implies something that is a scientific, meaning a soul or something else. I say a scientific because we can't prove it one way or the other. It can't be.

mission and purpose and why we're here. we're implying, well we imply that there's something, we imply, well I've more than implied, I've stated that I believe there's something absent, which implies something that is ascientific, meaning a soul or something else. I say ascientific because we can't prove it one way the other. You can make the case that there's a soul if you want, but we certainly have no evidence that there is, there's no scientific evidence there is. It doesn't mean we don't have one.

You can make the case that there's a soul if you want, but we certainly have no evidence that there is. There's no scientific evidence there is. It doesn't mean we don't have one. It just means it's a scientific. It's out of the realm of science. We can't discuss it from a scientific realm. It's just opinion at that point. So if we do believe there's a purpose and there's a point and then and there's something that follows after, then it has implications for.

which just means it's a scientific, out of the realm of science. We can't discuss it from the scientific realm. It's just opinion at that point. So if we do believe there's a purpose and there's a point and there's something that follows after, then it has implications for the way our brains work, meaning that we can then look at our brains as an existing, off-the-shelf,

for the way our brains work, meaning that we can then look at our brains as an existing off the shelf mechanical unit that stores information, that process information, that stores memories and then delivers memories back to us. But it's like a machine, it's like a computer. It's something that's not manmade, but could be manmade, meaning it doesn't have any...

a mechanical unit that stores information and process information and stores memories and then delivers memories back to us. But it's like a machine. It's like a computer. not man-made but could be man-made. Meaning it's, it doesn't have any, it has functionality but until you load it with software, doesn't really, the cerebral part of it doesn't really have, can't really do much which is why if you're an infant, you don't remember anything, you have no control over these things and so the base part of the brain, the medulla and the other portions that are more, the older portions.

It has functionality, but until you load it with software, doesn't really, know, at least the cerebral part of it doesn't really have, can't really do much, which is why you're an infant. You don't remember anything. can't, you have no control over these things. And so the base part of the brain, you know, the medulla and the other portions that are more, that are the older portions of the brain, evolutionary.

those things are just making our heart beat, making us sweat, keeping our temperature right, telling us when we're hungry, they're doing the very fundamentals. But what we're talking about are higher level functions. Thinking, memory, dreaming, right? These are at a higher level. And so when people say, there's no evidence for a soul or something outside our brains,

Those things are just, you know, making our heartbeat and making us sweat and keeping our temperature right and telling us when we're hungry. They're doing the very fundamentals. But what we're talking about are higher level functions. Thinking, memory, dreaming, right? These are at a higher level. And so so when people say, well, there's no evidence for a soul or something outside our brains. When we talk about purpose and mission, we're implying that there is. And of course, any science would say, well, that's nice, but there's zero evidence of that. There's no evidence that this is true. And I would say there's no evidence that it's not true. It's a scientific. We're out of the realm of science. OK, so why am I talking about all this? With memories. So when our brains stop functioning properly,

When we talk about purpose and mission, we're implying that there is. And of course, any scientist would say, well, that's nice, but there's zero evidence of that. There's no evidence that this is true. And I would say there's no evidence that this It's not true. It's a scientific.

stop functioning properly.

like a car stops functioning properly or your washing machine or your dishwasher. If you look at the brain the same way, you can say, okay, when it starts losing its functionality for whatever disease reason there is, abnormal protein builds up or amyloidosis, which is another protein, whatever is causing our brain to screw up and not work properly, whatever our soul is, whatever we are, whatever that

If you look at the brain the same way, can say, okay, when it starts losing its functionality for whatever disease reason there is, abnormal protein builds up, or amyloidosis, some other protein, whatever's causing our brain to screw up and not work properly, whatever our soul is, whatever we are, that a scientific part of us, if you believe it, is,

a scientific part of us, if we believe it is, you know, I don't think science can say, you see, that proves it is no such thing as a soul. It only says to me that whatever we want to believe is for a soul or an extra, not extra terrestrial, but extra biologic thing we're talking about, it just can't, you know, it uses the brain as its tool, right? The brain is its tool. Well, if the brain goes bad,

I don't think science can say, you see, that proves there's no such thing as a soul. It only says to me that whatever we want to believe is for a soul or an extra...

It uses the brain as its tool. If the brain goes bad, the soul might be sitting there going, okay, now what? How do I communicate? The machine I've been using for the last 96 years isn't working anymore. So when I look at this from the aerial view perspective,

The soul might be sitting there going, okay, now what? How do I communicate? This machine I've been using for the last 96 years isn't working anymore. So I look at this and when I look at this from the aerial view perspective, I look at the brain as an object, as a machine.

I look at the brain as an object, as a machine, and when it goes bad, it doesn't tell us anything about the rest, whether there is a soul, rest of that, whatever that makes us human, that part that makes us us, that makes you easy to be harmed, right? So I don't think what happens is the soul trapped, is this...

And when it goes bad, it doesn't tell us anything about the rest, whether there is a soul or the rest of that, whatever that makes us human, that part that makes us us, that makes you Enid and me Mark, right? So I think what happens is the soul trapped? this, you know, is this whatever we want to, I'm just using the word soul because I can't think of anything better at the moment. But

I'm just using the word salt, can't do anything better at the moment. it could still be there, but trapped. There's a syndrome in medicine called locked-in syndrome. It's a neurologic type of stroke where the brain is working fine. You can think, but you can't speak, you can't move.

It could still be there, but trapped. There's a syndrome in medicine called locked-in syndrome. It's a neurologic type of stroke where the brain is working fine. You can think, but you can't speak, you can't move. If you're lucky, you can blink your eyes. so you might have a perfectly intact cerebrum thick, you know, who's doing a simultaneous linear equations in your head, but you can't communicate to anybody. So somebody looking at you would say, he's, you know, he's out of it. He's a vegetable. But you're actually not a vegetable. You just can't get it out in any way. That's what's called locked in syndrome. It's a real syndrome.

If you're lucky, you can blink your eyes. And so you might have a perfectly intact cerebrum, who's doing simultaneous linear equations in the head, but you can't communicate with anybody. So somebody looking at you would say, oh, he's out of it. But you're actually not a vegetable. You just can't get it out in any way. That's called locked-in syndrome. It's a real syndrome. But how does somebody know that they have that? If they're not communicating at all, how do know the brain is still functioning like that? It's pretty tricky, right? Yeah.

Yeah. It's pretty tricky, right? I don't remember all my neuroscience on this, I unfortunately, I'd have to take a time out look at JAT CPT, but we're not going to do that. But anyway, this thing really exists. And I think about it the same way where when people have dementia, right?

Yeah.

doesn't mean that their inner person isn't there. It just can't be expressed through the brain. You see the analogy I'm drawing here? So we look at somebody with dementia and go, oh boy, they're out of it. They don't know what's going on. don't know know, stuck, you know, leaving out this very sad part you talked about of being trapped in these memories of, you know, 90 years ago or 80 years ago. But on a more general level, supposing that who we are is still there,

I do.

Leaving out this very sad.

but can't express his or herself because the brain isn't working properly. So we call it dementia. It doesn't mean to me that there's nothing in there. It means to me that there could be. It just can't be expressed because the machine isn't working. The brain isn't functioning. The dishwasher has a bad board. It doesn't work. You see what I'm saying? So.

Yes, but oftentimes the folks who have dementia or suffering from some form of dementia are living in that past. Today, they don't know what they had from lunch, but they remember maybe when they were a child what they used to love, you know, spaghetti and meatballs. It's fascinating to me.

Right, but so what I'm saying, when we look at these people, we treat them as that, at this very seriously afflicted individual who is trapped in old memories like this gentleman, or can't remember what they had for breakfast. And all these things are true, right?

Yes!

But there's another level that we may not be able to appreciate, just like the locked in syndrome patients who their brains are working great, but they just can't express it in any way. Like I said, they're lucky if they can blink their eyes. So I find all this fascinating. Getting to the bottom of this, I don't know what dementia is. I don't think we understand it well enough to know what this means for the entire human condition. Is there something else that can't express itself because the brain is not functional like it used to be? Is there more that we're not appreciating? Again, a scientific can't prove it, don't have any way to prove it, but I find it fascinating. I look at, so when I look at people with dementia, I look at them at all differently.

Is there something else that can't express itself because the brain is not functional like it used to be? Is there more that we're not appreciating? Again, ascientific, can't prove it, don't have any way to prove it. But I find it fascinating. So when I look at people from Asia, I look at them

like you I know have a tremendous amount of compassion and most normal people have compassion for these people. But I have it. I take it to even another level for me personally, like.

you I But I haven't, I take a tweet and.

I wish I could get inside, of push through the obvious dementia to see what's behind it. What else is still there that is not being expressed by this living organism that may have a soul, that may have something else? These are fundamental questions that if we're sitting with a if we're sitting with a legitimate scientist, legitimate science would say, I hear you.

I I could get inside, kind of push through the obvious dimension, see what's behind me, what else is still there that is not being expressed by this living organism that may have a soul or may have something else. These are fundamental questions that if you're sitting with a if we're sitting with a legitimate scientist, a legitimate scientist would say, I hear you.

I'm not saying you're wrong because I can't prove it either way. It's just out of the realm of science as it exists today. So it leaves us with something else, another level, know, an aerial view level of perspective to see that maybe more is going on than we can appreciate. Now, it doesn't mean that...

not saying you're wrong because they can't prove you the way. It's just an added amount of science as it is the easiest thing. So it leaves us with something else, another level, an aerial view level of the cells. Right. Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, sir, have a dear friend who's going through it now. She's been diagnosed with Alzheimer's. And I was sitting with her just the other day, and we were having a conversation. And I knew she wasn't tracking at all. was just no way. But I was going on and on. doing the usual Enid, and all of sudden it occurred to me I'm in the street view and she's in the aerial view. She was looking at something in a totally different way. She might have been listening to what I was saying. She might have even understood what I was saying, but she was somewhere else and I was quenching and she was happy. So maybe she was in the aerial view and I was in the street view and I thought to myself, I gotta get where she is. I don't wanna have Alzheimer's, but in many respects she's happy.

Yeah, we don't know. Yeah, we don't know. I mean, we paint it with a broad brush. We paint dementias with a broad brush, matter whether it's from Parkinson's or Alzheimer's or Lewy body dementias, there's a whole bunch of them. We paint them with a broad brush that these people, they just lost their connection to the world, right, to a certain degree, to the real world. And I always wonder what's going on behind the scenes, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And I have nothing else to say about it, unfortunately. You know, I think I've exhausted my, you know, my opinion on this because it is just opinion. And I just don't know. know, when, you know, when you're somebody like me who spends a lot of time in the aerial view and looking at the world differently, I don't tell you we're going to get off this topic in a minute because I'll tell you why. But, you know, I'm always looking kind of looking behind the curtain behind, you know, what is what is Oz?

Yeah.

You know, when you peel the curtain back, what really is going on? So here's another story. Maybe a little not along the exact same lines, but it kind of fills us in what we're talking about. Just getting back to how we how we react to our situations in our lives. I think a lot of people relate to this. So I had a phone call very, very recently from a friend I know. Who?

Yeah.

was going through his own medical thing, but he's also a doctor and he's still seeing patients. So he sent me, he had listened to our episode on Victor Frankl and, you know, how, he's also heard me say so many times that when I went, when something happens to me after the initial shock, I generally start to laugh. And he sent me an image, a radiologic image of a woman in her fifties who had just a couple of days of confusion. And he sent me the CT scan.

He's also a doctor and he's still seeing patients. So he sent me, he had listened to our episode on... And he's also heard me say it so many times, if they don't work for the campus media. And he sent me an image, a radiologic image.

anonymously, there's no names on it. But clearly this woman on the CT scan, was an MRCT, I can't remember, MRICT, had a brain tumor, pretty big brain tumor. So this was not going to end well. And he said to me, and he texted me and he said, so what would you have her do? Would you have her laugh and smile about this? And I said, what would you ever do? He said, I'd have her hug her husband.

So this was not going to end well. And he sent to me, and he texted me, and he said, so what would you have her do? Would you have her laugh and smile about this? And I said, what would you have her do? He said, I'd have her hug her husband. I said, that's great. I agree with that. Hug your husband, and then laugh and smile. And the reason is because she's not going to change the outcome. The outcome is written.

I said, that's great. I agree with that. Hug your husband and then laugh and smile. And the reason is because she's not going to change the outcome. The outcome is written, but she could decide how she wants to feel about it. So she could be going to a deep depression, stay in her bedroom, not want to see any of her friends or family, just be sad and crying and just full of just morose. Or she could choose to make light of it.

She could decide how she wants to feel about it. So she could be going through a deep depression, stay in her bed and not want to see any of friends and family. Just be sad and crying.

or she could choose to make libel, like Benjamin Hall did when he injured. we've talked about Benjamin Hall before. So, even when these terrible things happen, whether it dementia, we talked about earlier, memory loss, neither the family nor the patient needs to go into a funk. It doesn't change the outcome. Why be sad? As much as you can control it.

Right. Like Benjamin Hall did of his injuries. So we talked about Benjamin Hall before. So again, even when these terrible things happen, whether it be dementia, we talked about earlier, memory loss, you don't, neither the family nor the patient needs to go into a funk. It doesn't change the outcome. Why be sad as much as you can control it? Choose happy. Choose

She's happy. She's laughing. She's smiling. It sounds crazy. Like my friend said, they do nuts as soon as she has a brain tumor and you want her to laugh about it? And I don't want her to laugh about it in the first five minutes, obviously. But I do want her to understand that she has control of the rest of her life and how she feels. I don't know how long she's gonna be around. She's got a pretty good sized brain tumor. I'm gonna get 18 months.

laughing, she's smiling. It sounds crazy. Like my friend says to me, you nuts this woman just has a brain tumor and you want her to laugh about it? And I don't want her to laugh about it in the first five minutes, obviously, but I do want her to understand that she has control of the rest of her life of how she feels. I don't know how long she's going to be around. She's got a pretty good size brain tumor. I'm going to get 18 months maybe if she's lucky, something like that. So how do you want to spend those 18 months? Yeah, hug your husband, hug your kids, hug your friends, hug your grandchildren if you have them, whatever.

So how do you want to spend those 18 months? Yeah, hug your husband, hug your kids, hug your friends, hug your grandchildren, Hug whoever you want. It's great. And tell some jokes with them. And laugh with them.

hug whoever you want. It's great. And tell some jokes with them and laugh with them and do silly things and say funny things. Cause the, that last record that is already there, it already exists. So we, so when I sound, people think I'm callous, that I don't care. You know, it's exactly the opposite. I care tremendously. So I want them to, whatever time they have left on this earth to enjoy as much as they can.

do silly things and say funny things because that last record is already there, it already exists. So when I sound, people think I'm callous, that I don't care. You know, it's exactly the opposite. I care tremendously. So I want them to, whatever time they have left on this earth, to enjoy as much as they can. Being sad and depressed and unhappy is not the solution, right? I get it, it's a serious situation, even worse when it's a child, God forbid.

Being sad and depressed and unhappy is not the solution. Right. I get it. It's a serious situation, even worse when it's a child, God forbid. Right. You know, I've seen so much of this in my life as in medicine. It's it's it's devastating. Here's another one. Here's another example of this. So, you know, I did a lot of women's imaging. I did a lot of mammography, breast cancer imaging, probably read 30,000, 40,000 mammograms, probably saw

I've seen so much of this in my life as an episode. It's devastating. Here's another one. Here's another example of this. So as you know, I did a lot of women's imaging. did a lot of mammography of breast cancer imaging. Probably read 30,000, 40,000 nanograms. saw thousands of breast cancers. can't think how many thousands. And the ones that just really slugged me.

thousands of breast cancers, can't tell you how many thousands. And the ones that just really slugged me were like a woman who was just, we see this a lot, a woman who has just delivered a baby and is diagnosed with breast cancer. All those hormones have a lot to do with it.

where like a woman who is, we see this a lot, a who has just delivered a baby and is diagnosed with breast cancer. All those hormones have a lot to do with it and you think, my God, most of actually do okay nowadays, but still. But I've had plenty in years past who had diagnosed with breast cancer in young women with young children. Of course, the first thought I had was those poor children, they can't go to their mother. I always thought that and I do.

And you think, my God, most of them actually do okay nowadays, but still. But I've had plenty in years past who had diagnosed with breast cancer in young women with young children. Of course, the first thought I had was those poor children, they're going to go up without a mother. Right. I always thought that. I can't tell you how many times I was in the verge of tears telling women like this that they had breast cancer.

I can't tell you how many times I was in verge of tears telling women like this that they had breast cancer. You know, it's a lot easier telling women who's 80 that she has breast cancer, even though it's not easy. But, you know, it's a lot easier.

You know, it's a lot easier telling a woman who's 80 that she has breast cancer, even though it's not easy, but you know, it's a lot easier, right? For me, certainly. But when you tell a young woman in her 20s or 30s that she has breast cancer, and that she has young children especially, even without children, but certainly even worse with children, it's like devastating to me, and I know it's devastating to her. And I always worried about the children. And then 20 years later, I have a patient and it's one of these children, right? And it's like, they're fine. They're having a life. They have a career maybe, maybe they have a significant other, maybe even they have their own children, whatever. And I think, wow, I have to keep that in mind that life goes on. Life goes on. So even when there's what appears to be tragedy, we are not trapped in tragedy, right? First of all,

patient and it's one of these children. It's like they're fine. They're having a life. They have a career maybe. Maybe they have a significant other. Maybe they have their own children. Whatever. And I think

So even when there's what appears to be tragic, we are not trapped in tragedy. First of all, things work out one way or the other. Maybe not always well, but they always work out one way or other. And there's no gain in wallowing in despair. And so when these people have these...

things work out one way or the other, maybe not always well, but they always work out one way the other. And there is no gain in wallowing in despair. And so when these people have these terrible diseases or dementia, just the Viktor Frankl rule still applies. You have control of how you feel. Why would you want to be sad? Spend your time.

you just convicted Franco rules, those are still a clause, have control of how you heal. Why would you want to be sad? Spend your time making your most of

making the most of your life, doing as much as you can to fulfill your mission, enjoying your friends and family. It's just such a strong message that I think is so important to keep in mind when your parent gets dementia or a friend gets dementia or somebody gets a debilitating or even terminal disease.

It's just such a strong message that I think is so important to keep in mind when your parent gets the match or your friend gets the match or somebody gets the

This is the way life is. It's supposed to go this way. It's the way humanity is supposed to evolve. This is supposed to happen. But you have control. It's like the ultimate message. It's like God is saying to you, okay, I'm going to give you the job. Here's what's going to happen to you. Where do you see I'm taking, you know, you're to be sitting in a broiling sun in full heat. I'm taking away your tree. I'm not going to give you any food or water. Right. What are you going to do with it?

This is the way life is. It's supposed to go in this way.

This is supposed to happen, but you have control.

Joe here's what's gonna happen wait you see you're gonna be sitting in a boiling sun full heat I'm taking away your tree I'm not gonna give you any food or water right what are you gonna do with it Joe's job is to say

And Job's job is to say, okay, I get this is my lot, but I don't have to be sad. I don't have to be depressed. I don't have to be angry. I don't have to rage, right? It's such a powerful message for all of us as we deal with our own illnesses and those of our friends and family. We have so much control.

there.

But I would go back and tell you that to me, we read a story here about bad memories, there's no question, but there are good memories too. And to my mind, that's another thing to think about. While there are bad things that are happening, but you take the woman who you then looked after her child, her next, maybe was a girl who came in. But what she has are good memories of her mother. So I think memories are important. think that we, I never like to discard them. I think they're really important. In fact, that's what brought me back to you. I had memories of when we were kids and then we got, we came back together at our reunion and at the reunion, everything clicked in my head about all the memories of what we used to do and now what we're doing. One more thing I was just thinking about. You you have these dreams at night and you get up and you don't remember what they were. You forget your dreams. I wonder why that is. We just had them, but then we forget them. Why is that?

Yeah, I actually remember... for a fair amount of time more than some people. Yeah, I actually remember some of my dreams. I just want to get back to one thing about memories. And this is we've talked about this before, but it's worth repeating since we're talking about because you were saying memories give you such joy, memories of your past. And here's some of that that that again, we've talked about most people don't know. Most people don't believe, but it's true. We're to go back to the jukebox of time just for a minute. Remember, all those memories are not just memories.

Do ya?

Yeah. Yeah.

All those events are still occurring. To me, it is the ultimate comfort food, right? Like, wow, all those moments, like you talked about your mother and we knew each other's parents and. And we look back at those times and we have memories of them, memories of our parents and memories of our childhood, but they still are occurring. It is the coolest thing in the world for me to think that those things are still happening. They're just as real as our conversation right now. Every moment is now. There's no such thing as a past. It's past to us, but it's always now where it is and it's always alive and it's always happening.

Every moment is now. There's no such thing as a past. It's passed to us, but it's always now where it is, and it's always alive, and it's always happening. In forever, in perpetuity, those moments never go away. How comforting. To me, that alone is such a great clue as to what is going on in human life, or any life. In lives that have consciousness, what is going on?

in forever, in perpetuity, those moments never go away. How comforting. And to me, that alone is such a great clue as to what is going on in human life or any life, right? In lives that have consciousness, what is going on, right? The fact that all these moments exist forever, such a powerful clue, right? It just reinforces my concept that I'm stuck on. And again, I don't

all these moments exist forever. Such a powerful clue, right? It just reinforces my concept that I'm stuck over. Again, I don't try and sell things to anybody. But the way time works, the way laws work, the

try and sell things to anybody. But the way time works, the way that all those moments exist is again, it's a super clue that says, okay, you are here for a limited amount of time. Those moments will go on forever. What are you going to make of them? You have a purpose. Do something.

You are here for a limited amount of time. Those moments will go on forever. What are you going to make of them? You have a purpose. Do something. Do good. Take care of others. Leave a legacy. A little story. Leave the world better than you found it. Yes. What can you leave at the end? When those days of adventure gone, you leave this earth, what have you left behind?

Do good, take care of others, leave a legacy. You the old story, know, leave the world better than you found it. Yes. Right. What's going to be what can you leave at the end when you're, know, when you when those days of dementia are gone and you leave this earth, what have you left behind? You've left behind your accomplishments, especially how you've treated others, what impact you've had on the world. So don't be sad.

That's it.

So don't be sad, don't be depressed when bad things happen. Get over the initial shock, and everyone else has an initial shock. And then understand this part of your story doesn't change the mission, doesn't change your ability to control anything.

Don't be depressed when bad things happen. Get over the initial shock. Everyone else has an initial shock. And then understand this part of your story. doesn't change the mission. It doesn't change your ability to control how you feel unless, unfortunately, like this gentleman you read about, you have terrible dementia that sticks you into a terrible place. For most of it, that's not the case. So make the most of it. Keep a smile on your face. Be positive. Be happy. It's OK to be smiling, laughing in the face of

The most of it is not the face. make the most of it. Keep a smile on your face. It's okay to be smiling and laughing in the face of adversity or even illness or worse. It's possible. That's what Victor Franco told us. We're in complete control. That's what Duke Box and Tom tells us. We're here for a reason. Make the most of it. Certainly don't spend...

of adversity or even illness or worse. It's possible. That's what Viktor Frankl told us. You're in complete control. That's what the jukebox of time tells us. You're here for a reason. Make the most of it and certainly don't spend any more time than you need to in sadness or despair.

And you know, I'll end on this because when you think about back to the story the man is still very much alive at the age of 96 and Maybe that's one of the purposes of the had his son still visits him in Israel There's got to be reason why he's still alive. It's unfortunate that he's still having those Horrible recollections of what happened to him, but he's still alive. There must be a purpose. There must be a reason why he's still alive

and we don't know what's happening behind the curtain.

and we don't know. On that note, we will end. I thank you. This is a heavy conversation. has to be. These are kinds of conversations that have to take place. We have to think about these things. I think the biggest issue that I had today is that you don't like Barbra Streisand. So I'm done with you.

You know what I used to love Barbra Streisand. What no, mean, yeah, I mean I should I shouldn't Okay, I don't get myself in trouble. I wish Barbra Streisand all the best I think she's got a fantastic voice and And I love seeing her on campus. So as many years ago

What do you mean used to? She's the greatest.

Yes, she does.

She's to me the greatest. And she said, what's too painful to remember, we simply choose to forget. I thank you. This is great. Appreciate it. Until next time, keep those cards and letters coming in and we will see you next week. Any final words, Doc?

Nope. Thanks, Amelia, for another interesting conversation. hope our listeners got something out of this one. And thank you all for listening. We'll see you next time.

Peace.