Episode 27: A discussion with our old friend Alan Zweibel

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever hour it is you're listening. Welcome to Wisdom from the Aerial View. This is a podcast about meaning and purpose and how we can alleviate some of the stress in our everyday lives. It's based on a book by the same name, Wisdom from the Aerial View by Dr. Mark Klein, who will be joining us in a minute. But before that, we're gonna change up the format a little bit today because we've got a guest with us. Not just any guest. a very special guest. His name is Alan Zweibel. And I'm going to read you his bio and I'll probably interject a couple of things in middle of it. An original Saturday Night Live writer, Alan Zweibel has won five Emmys. Five? You couldn't save some for other people. Two Writer Guild of America awards for his work in television, which also includes it's Gary Shanling show. Love that, which he co-created and produced. David Letterman show and Curb Your Enthusiasm. frequent guests in all the late night talk shows. Alan's theatrical contributions include his collaboration with Billy Crystal on the Tony Award winning play, 700 Sundays, which I might tell you I've seen several times. I guess I'm a fan. Martin Short's Broadway hit, Fame Becomes Me, I didn't see that one, and the off-Broadway play, Bunny Bunny, Gilda Radner, a sort of romantic comedy, which he adapted from his best-selling book. I'm on a podcast with bestselling authors here and I'm just sitting here. I don't know what, what am I doing here? All told, Alan has written 11 books, including the 2006 Thurber Prize winning novel, The Other Schulman, popular children's book, Our Tree Named Steve. I mean, we can go on and on about these books. His humor, he said, come on, get on with it. His humor has appeared in such diverse publications as the New Yorker, Esquire, Atlantic Monthly, the New York Times. Alan Zweibel (01:47.48) Keep going.

our bed page, the Huffington Post, Air Mail, and the most important, MAD Magazine, what me worry? All right, we're gonna talk about what me worry. This is funny to me that in 2010, he got an honorary PhD from the State University of New York. They had to do that because he flunked out of that very same school, I'm thinking. And because of the diversity of his body of work in 2013, the Writers Guild of America presented him with a lifetime achievement award. Alan Zweibel (02:00.408) There you go.

They usually do that for people who are just about ready to kick it. But hey, he's still with us. He's still with us. Thank God he's still with us. Alan, this is the most exciting to me because he's in the middle of writing a Broadway show about the life and comedy of Rodney Dangerfield. How exciting is that? He's just finished a screenplay to be directed by the Academy Award winner, Barry Levinson, and it's putting finishing touches on a new novel entitled You First. I mean, this is incredible. I have to tell you though, Why are Mark and Alan and I, first of we never called you Alan, it was always Zweeb. Why are we on this podcast together? Well, we are three old friends. I figured it out, my math is not great, but we've probably known each other or been friends for 60 years, which is really kind of a remarkable achievement when one thinks about it, that A, we're still alive and we still know each other. And the thing is that the three of us are still working. Alan Zweibel (03:12.128) Ha

So let's start with that. And this is a question that Mark said to me, why don't you ask Weeb this. What motivates you to continue working, Weeb? Alan Zweibel (03:31.278) Well, you wake up in the morning and you got to do something, right? And if you're lucky enough to be allowed or given the opportunity to pursue a passion, all right, you keep going. Why does Paul McCartney still write songs? Why does Paul Simon still? Why do you know every writer that I know who have since passed a lot of them, like my friend Buck Henry,

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alan Zweibel (04:01.222) He died a few years ago. He was in the middle of writing a book as was Carl Reiner who died a few years ago. And it's just, if it's part of your nature to do something, pursue it. And if it's not available to you, I think it's worth it to try to figure out how can I do this at this age? All right, what am I allowed to do? What are they saying no to? And if they're saying no, you go to hell with you. I got here to begin with by following my own path, following my own passions. I'll continue my way. I'll figure it out.

Yeah. Mark, you wanted me to ask that question. So why does that question particularly intrigue you?

Well, I think it's interesting because one of the things Ina and I talk about, Alan, by the way, thanks for joining us. This is a real pleasure on a lot of different levels. Yes, we have known each other a long time and I'm looking at the images of us to people. This is an audio only podcast, as I told you, Alan, before. My wife looked at our first recording and said to me, you should make this an audio podcast only. So she does love me, but at least she's honest, right? Alan Zweibel (04:54.605) Yes. Alan Zweibel (05:07.458) No, no, she said that you have a face for radio. I understand that compliment.

She did. She did say that. it's a lot of fun for us to do this together. Obviously, Enid and I have followed your career. We've all been busy, but your career has been different than ours because it's been public. You've run one of the most famous TV shows of all time. You've been involved with other very, very famous and successful TV shows. You've written books, plays, movies. And these are all in the public domain. one of those people who's not only been super successful at what they do, but visibly successful. So it's fun for us. And I'm going to say something to you that might sound a little weird, but Enid will get it in a minute. When I've watched your career, I'm actually very proud of you. And that sounds condescending, like why would you care that I'm proud of you? But I do feel that way. I feel the way about Enid the same way. She's had quite an incredible career helping Alan Zweibel (05:57.442) Thank you.

literally probably millions of people find places to live and have things to eat. No small task. And in fact, I look at the two of you and I think, OK, how did I do? It reminds me of I had a good friend who passed away last year. was a very he was an astronaut, an Apollo astronaut. He was General Tom Stafford. He commanded Apollo 10, which is the one right before the moon landing. He was friends with John Glenn and all those guys. And he and I became very close friends. probably something years ago. I used to, every time we talk, we talk all the time, I would think, God, I haven't done anything compared to you. And so, you know, it's always fun to be with people who are really successful and have done, have really taken their craft to a very high level. enough of that. We've really enjoyed it. But the reason I wanted to ask about why you're still working, Enid and I are still working to not just doing this podcast, Enid still runs a nonprofit. I actually started a company to provide colon cancer screening. a different mode of colon cancer screening. And my goal is to save a lot of lives, especially younger individuals who are unfortunately succumbing to this disease at a rapid rate. why the three of us doing this? And we thought the best person to ask why would be you. And you mentioned that as your passion, but I think it's something else. Let me get your feedback on this. I have often said to Ian, I feel like we get one life, you put it on this earth, it's a limited time only engagement. Everybody knows what the last record of your, we talk about something called the jukebox of time. moment being a record of time, every record representing a moment in time. And everybody knows what the last record sounds like, know, it's adios. So we know it's a limited time engagement, but I always feel like we're given this gift and we sort of have to run through the tape, know, keep going as long as you can, keep contributing, donating to the world. And my guess is you sort of feel the same way. Alan Zweibel (08:00.096) absolutely. Because I agree with you. We've given this one chance that we know of, OK? This thing called life. And we're here. We weren't here. Now we're here. Then we won't be here. And we won't be here again for a very, very long time. And why not fill your life with a variety of different

Now we know. Alan Zweibel (08:25.186) You know, I use the word passion, but endeavors, you know, whatever you whatever you feel like doing, whatever that gives not only you pleasure, but gives something back, gives something to others. I think that that's the greatest reward. Family, friends, the people out there. I look at Enid and I see what she does and I go, wow. I remember we had a delicious breakfast one day many, many years ago and I'm sitting there in awe. You know, and I look at you and your books, Mark. It's it's there's something I think you reach a certain age where you go, OK, who am I? What have I done? What else could I do? What stones have not been turned over? And then if it is a matter of enriching somebody else's lives, why not? That seems like a wonderful mission.

You know, one of the things we talk about a lot on this podcast is the whole notion of purpose. What is our purpose here? Why are we here? Mark has a talk about this all the time about what is our purpose. And I guess I keep thinking, well, what does that mean? So let me ask you first, Mark, tell Zweeb your idea about our purpose, why we are here and what we're preparing for. And then I'm going to ask you, Zweeb, what's your purpose? Why are we here? Mark?

Well, I would say that since Zweeb is our guest, he should go first. Because I already know what I think. I want to hear what he thinks.

Okay. All right, your turn. Alan Zweibel (10:02.072) When you say on purpose, do you talk about individual or why are we here on earth or what exactly? You know, I learned at a very early age, as a matter of fact, when I moved in the middle of 10th grade to Hewlett High School, all right, I was the new kid. And I was now among all these other kids who knew each other since kindergarten. And I'm going, all right. This is not going to be easy. And I discovered that I could make people laugh. And I, and and I saw the feedback that I was getting. So I go, all right, I'll do a little bit more of this. All right. And, I, pushed that pedal a little harder and I realized that the feedback that I was getting was not, it was a laugh. But what it also was is if I look at. the Hewlett High School yearbook and what the inscriptions were on people's pages or the feedback that I've been getting since I became a professional and whether it's to my website or just when I go and speaking engagements, people say thank you for making me laugh. Thank you for bringing some joy into my life. Right now, we live in these very, very odd times as we know and there's so much strife and there's so much dissension. And there's so much division going on. And now the feedback that I get is I needed a laugh. I needed it. so for me, it comes naturally, but I am more aware of it than ever that it does have a greater benefit than me just getting personal feedback.

Yeah.

It's funny you should say that because I remember when you came, because you kind of zoomed from like, who is this kid to the one of the most popular kids in the class in like 20 minutes, which is quite the feat because Aina and I will, guess we haven't talked about this, you were definitely sitting at the cool kids table pretty quickly. And I think you're right. It's probably because you're funny. Aina and I, both humor is a really big part of our lives. You know, I'm not a professional comedian. I am not a professional writer like you are humor writer. And I think I've told you before that I think writing humor is super hard. I've tried it and I can't do it. even though I like to write, that's quite a gift that you have. I remember you told me once you wrote a thousand jokes for when you were doing the Borscht Belt Circuit and you had this... Alan Zweibel (12:34.552) Well, that's what I auditioned for Saturday Night Live with. I had a binder that had 1,100 jokes that I'd written. Yeah.

Yeah, I remember that. I was a thousand. I was close to 1100. Okay, well, you know, so that's but for Enid and me who are not professionals, know, humor is a huge part of life. In fact, I'm going to admit this. I told Enid this the other day that I actually have been caught smirk laughing at funerals. Now, why would somebody laugh at a funeral? Because the way I look at the world and this is what

you

the aerial view is often about. It's a different perspective. And there's really humor in not everything. mean, tragedy, cruelty, brutality. Obviously, these are not funny. most of the world is not that. And so what you've been able to do is take the rest of the world, skim off the top, the crap off top and make fun about everything else. And I think we agree. mean, you know, being able to laugh is one of the purest joys of all. It's a fantastic thing. So, yeah. It is no small thing to make that kind of contribution to the world. know, Ian was asking me about, you know, to kind of relate what I consider our purpose. look, I'm just this is the people who listen to this podcast know how I feel. And this is my opinion. I don't try and sell anything to anybody. But from the clues we've looked at that we've talked about on this podcast and in my books is that I believe we're here that there is purpose that we are here for purpose. And the purpose is preparation. Why? Because most of the things that happened in our life have happened to every other person that's ever existed on the planet. There is literally nothing new under the sun. Societies have gone through the same ups and downs. We've had war after war after war. Nothing is new. And human... Relationships are certainly not new. Shakespeare wrote about the same things that you're writing about in terms of human interaction. you know, these things are all old news. And yet each one of us, can't read a manual when we're young and figure out, you know, how to go through life. Life is experiential. We have to experience these things. And to me, the only reason I can get think of and I've been able to really deduce some of clues that I've looked at is that life is preparation. And so what are we preparing for? Well, I don't know. You should write a, your next book might, maybe you write about whatever the hereafter you think is. I'm sure it'd be funny, but. I don't know what comes next, I do believe something comes next. I do believe it has to do with a job. I don't think it's just eating, drinking pina coladas, as I like to say. I think there's something else to come. But I think we're preparing. the thing that we're required to do is make this evolution that we talk about on this podcast a lot, that evolution from selfish to selfless, from inward focus to outward focus, from turning the camera from me to concentrating on you. And Enid's heard me say this a million times, that I am much, I care more.

At this point, especially in my life, I care much more about the welfare of others than I care about myself. Why? It's not because I'm some great person. Compared to Enid, I feel like I've done nothing in my life in terms of her commitment to other people. But it's because that's where the joy comes from. You mentioned that. You said that just two minutes ago, that that's where the joy comes from, making other people, improving other people's lives. And I think not only is it the right thing to do in preparation, but it makes you have the most fulfilling and enjoyable life. So now, Alan, you need to say something funny. Alan Zweibel (15:41.556) boy, boy, boy, boy. All right, you know the one about the two old Jews who were on the deck of the Titanic as it was going down? One of them started weeping, the other one said, why are you crying? It's not your boat.

Sigh.

Hmm.

Hahaha!

Ha ha ha ha! Alan Zweibel (16:00.142) Alright.

That's great. You came through, you didn't disappoint. Well done. Well done. Truly professional.

You know, I have to say, you know, we talk a lot on this podcast about stress and how do we deal with it? And Mark keeps telling me, well, you're too stressed. yeah, you and I, we've been stressed and stressed our whole lives and that's who we are. But the question, and one of the things that we know relieves stress is humor. I mean, if we laugh, Alan Zweibel (16:06.764) I pulled that one out of my butt.

We can't have two emotions at the same time. I can't be stressed and laugh at the same time. So we'd rather laugh. let me ask you to tell us publicly, what are the stressors in your life, Sweep? What stresses you out? And then what do you do to alleviate that? Alan Zweibel (16:47.896) Well, it's really interesting because by definition, on the surface, what I do, I sit down with my vocabulary and I pick out words and I put them in an order that keeps people attention and makes them laugh every so often. The irony is, is that stressful? Okay, you know, especially if you have something going on in your personal life that isn't humorous. If there's a death, if somebody's sick, you know what I mean? If somebody gets divorced, I mean, thank God I've not gotten divorced. I'm still with Robin 45 years, but there's ups and downs in any relationship. There's peaks and valleys and any kind of stress. So there's this idea that to laugh makes you relieves you of stress, but it's very stressful at times to be funny, you know, to do what you feel is your purpose. And, you know, I wake up 530 every day, and I sit down and I'm working on whatever. there if I'm lucky, by noon, I've put in a full day.

to make people laugh, yeah. Alan Zweibel (18:11.956) Okay, i've been fertile and i'm spent and i'm going okay but There are a lot of days where I wake up at 5 30 And I sit down and by 7 a.m i'm gone I I don't have it today now. The rest of the world is still sleeping by and large and i've already put it in an unsuccessful day, okay So what do I do when I was younger when I was younger? I would sit at the laptop or back in the days of SNL, was free computers, we had legal pads. I would sit and wait for the muses to find me. Okay. And that was stressful. Where the hell are they? When are they showing up? I'm sitting here. I'm sitting here. I have since learned that you can go for a walk. You're allowed to watch another episode, a rerun of Law and Order. You can go to a movie.

You Alan Zweibel (19:08.044) You can go shopping for something you don't need and do it and just get away from yourself. Get away from whatever is going on internally, internally in you. And, you know, it's like people say, it's almost a cliche. They get their best ideas in the shower. I hear it there. Why do we do that? Why? Because we're not we're not pressing. You know what I mean? And we're just letting the body take over. And, you know, that's why TV shows. If you look at the crawl at the end, they have 10, 12 writers because you allow for people to have peaks and valleys in terms of being fertile. You know, I remember when I was at SNL, which is a very long time ago, but I, you know, you know, a grandparent died. I broke up with somebody and I was sitting there, you know, for a few weeks and nothing was working. Nothing was coming out. But there was a show to put on, you had enough people to pick up the slack as I did with them when they were going through something. You know, there's things called, you know, writer's block. You know, it's funny, for my last book, I asked some of my friends, writing friends, if they experienced writer's block and what they do. You know, Dave Barry, I called him up and I said, you know,

Sure. Alan Zweibel (20:33.186) writing this book, what do you do when you have writer's block? He says, well, handle writer's block the same way I handle constipation. I just sit there waiting for something to come out. So, you know, there are I think occupational hazards, no matter what anybody does, no matter what anybody is does, who's listening right now, all the people out there in the world. And, you know, I just think that

you

Right up Mark's alley here. Alan Zweibel (21:04.194) You know, I think as songwriters, you know, you always envy the thing you can't do. You know, it's really interesting. I remember before SNL started, I found myself at a table in a restaurant with Lorne Michaels and Mike Nichols and all these people, and Gilda and nobody, you know, I'm this kid, I'm still slicing locks in a deli, you know, and I'm seated next to Paul Simon, who's my idol. You know, and fine. And I was tongue tied, you know, and I'm going, wait a second. I don't know if I can hold my own with these people. You know, I was just overwhelmed. And finally, he introduces himself to me and he says, what are you going to be doing on this new show? And I was almost apologetic about it. I said, I'm going to be a writer. And he goes, wow. What a wonderful talent to sit down and write something and make people laugh with your words. And then all of a sudden I go, I'm talented. Bridge over troubled waters. The boxer. What if you lost your mind? Okay. So it's, it's, it's the thing you can't do that we're envious of, you know, and I just think that no matter who you are, no matter what you do,

Yeah. Alan Zweibel (22:30.882) Your biggest problem is your biggest problem. And that's what gives you stress. And it's a matter of how do you deal with it?

But does staying relevant make you stressed? mean, how does one, look, all of us, well, you and I, we were the same age, Mark's younger than we are, like two years, I guess, how at our age, I mean, doing what we do, how do you stay relevant? I know what Mark does. Mark, I mean, he puts himself down a little bit here. He saves lives. We look at lives, he saves them. I mean, he's a doctor, he's been a doctor for years and has saved countless lives.

Well you-

relevant yet yet he had it he's in a new business now you got to be relevant in that how does one stay relevant at our age we've Alan Zweibel (23:17.134) Well, it's a great question. The word relevant is something that somebody applies to us, whether they feel we're relevant or not. I'm not sure that that's... I use the word too, but I'm not that's the word. know, what I do feel is, I think you stay in your lane. It's a delicate combo of what do you do best

That's true.

Yeah, yeah.

I like that. I'm going to write that down because that's very good. That's very good.

It is. Alan Zweibel (23:47.286) I know what I do is what I do best is I look at my life, I look at the world and I have an whatever my eye is, whatever my take is on it. That's where I try not to stray. I try to keep my voice. However, at the same time, if people deem your 75 year old voice is not what's speaking to them right now, I understand that. But I do think that people can detect a fraud or somebody who's pandering. a mile away. All right. So I'm just grateful that the baby boomers that there's still a lot of us out there, you know, and so but it's it's it's so odd when I started writing jokes. This is out of college. I started writing jokes for these Catskill comedians for seven dollars a joke. That's that was the going rate in 1972. And I remember they were playing in these Catskill hotels that were

Yeah, yeah. Alan Zweibel (24:46.602) starting to close because you know the Catskills were dying they hung out they stayed open a lot of times operating in the red because they were waiting for gambling to come up there so it would revive the area as it had done with Atlantic City and then when SNL came along and our generation Woodstock and Nixon resigned you know at Watergate and all of that stuff the stuff that they were talking about didn't resonate to our generation. It didn't resonate to the world. All of a sudden, they became old hat. And I remember a comedian that I had written for saying, well, what about us? Meaning his generation, where are we supposed to go? Who are we supposed to make laugh? So they ended up, when the Caskells died, they ended up going down to Florida playing condos, playing cruise ships, and things like that. When we started SNL, well, we were the new kids on the block and we took the world that Alan King, let's say, on the talked about on the Ed Sullivan show. He was a fat cat with a cigar and he talked about the airlines, insurance companies. He was the establishment of it. Now we come along and the logo for the early years of SNL was spray paint. on the wall of the outside of what was then called the RCA building. I think it's now the Comcast building where NBC is. So it was almost like graffiti. Symbolically, it was like, OK, we're going to besmirch this. We're going to parody this. This is our view of things. OK. And it felt like it would last forever. So now it's 50 years. A couple of months ago, we celebrated the 50th anniversary of SNL. so we

Right. Alan Zweibel (26:42.05) was a glorious weekend and you know, we saw a lot of people I hadn't seen in a while. I had met Robin on that show, so the two of us being in that studio and it was just glorious. But now everybody's in their mid to late 70s. I don't know how that happened. I don't remember. I guess if you add it up, OK, what did you accomplish? Yeah, maybe that takes 50 years to do. OK, but it goes by quickly. And I'm looking around and I'm going, how do we stay, as you said, it relevant? How do people, you know something? I'm writing this play about Rodney Dangerfield and I'm doing a lot of research. I probably know more about Rodney Dangerfield than anybody except maybe him. here's a guy who died 20ish years ago and he's, He's trending more so on YouTube and on social media than anybody. All right. Why? Yeah, he's funny, but there's a younger generation who believes in that. There's there's there's something that's valid about his demeanor, the way he presents himself. And that's what I'm saying about do what you do. OK. And be as good as you can at it. Somebody is going to find you. There's a lot of people out there. I hope I answered your question.

Yeah. Yo, you did. Yeah, please. As long as it's not, as long as you're not asking me a question, I'll fail that test.

Can I ask a question in it? thank you. So, well, two things I want to say. One, we're to get back to this in a second about all this that it's been 50 years and so on. But we have really good news for you, Zweeb, that all those things are still going on and that's the way time works. We'll get back to that in a minute. Some people who listen to this podcast know all about this, but we'll make you feel better in a couple of minutes. Not that you need to feel better, but... You said something before about writer's block and your joke with Dave Barry, his joke. I'll tell you an interesting story. When COVID hit, I've been practicing medicine for many, many years, about as many years as you've been doing ever since you stopped slicing locks in the deli. I practiced medicine. I saw over 100,000 patients. I've seen a lot of people. In between all this, I try and write books. I'm not nearly as prolific as you obviously because that was your career. But I've written four books and the third book I wrote was a novel. It was the first time. And why did I write a novel? The other ones were all nonfiction books. Well, COVID hit and I happened to be nearly the oldest, one of the oldest people in my group. And at that time when COVID hit, was like, God, if you're over 50, you're going to die. So we needed fewer doctors to man the practice. We had like 25, 30 people at that point. because fewer patients were coming and everybody was basically petrified to leave their house. So we didn't need as many doctors. so a couple of us were instructed to temporarily stay home. This is the first time I didn't work because I get up at 5.30 in the morning like you did, and I would be out of the house by 6.15. I'd be working by 7.45. And I had to work 10 hours no matter what. if I didn't think of anything funny to say, I still had to work. So at any rate, But now it some for the first time since literally, I don't know, high school, college, whenever I was able, I had time. So I sat down every morning like you described, because I'd never done this. I'm not a professional writer. But now I said, OK, now what am I going to do? I can't do nothing. I have to do something. So I had this idea of a novel that I'd been percolating in my brain for probably about eight years or so. And I had notes all over the place. I'm sure you, you know, you have done the same thing. Yeah. So I said, OK, now I have no excuse. Right. So so I sat down every morning and Alan Zweibel (30:18.192) I know the drill, sure.

I would start, I didn't use a yellow pad, I used a computer, and I would write like two words, and then of course nothing would happen. And I'd think, God, God, God, right? But then a miracle would happen every single time. And that if I just waited long enough, kind of like Dave Barry talked about, something would happen. And I always got the feeling, and I've written about 25 songs, maybe three quarters of them have words to them, lyrics. None of them anybody in the world has ever heard of, but it's okay. Fame luckily wasn't something I really needed. So I've written a lot of music, I've written poetry, and now here I am. But I always felt the same way. When it was done, was, and I'd be interested to hear if you feel the same way since you're a professional, that it was a miracle to me. Every time, every song was a miracle, every poem was a miracle. And this book that I wrote, was a miracle because it would seem like this spirit would kind of seep through the air. It's like I imagine the movie, you know, the Ten Commandments when the green fog comes in and kills all the firstborn additions, right? That's what I feel like. It was this fog coming down and somehow going into my brain and rescuing me. And I always felt that these kind of creative moments were extracorporeal, like they came from some divine somewhere. And I don't know, did you ever get that feeling? that or? Alan Zweibel (31:38.036) God, God, yeah. know, whether it was this Rodney script, which, you know, I just handed it in yesterday to the producers. So that's still fresh in my mind. There was a couple of scenes in there where I went, wow, that's really good. That's really good. But there's also a part of me when I look at something old that I had done, I go, boy, I wonder if I could still write that joke today. You know, is always I had a very interesting experience on a movie that I had written. Eric Clapton did the music for it. OK. And we went to score the music for the film. Rob Reiner directed it. And so there was a studio. were out in L.A. And Eric Clapton is sitting on a stool with a guitar. And he's looking up at a monitor, right? And he goes, OK, play the scene. So he's watching a scene and he plucks two or three notes. OK, play the scene again. So now there's five or six notes again. Yes, is 11 or 12 notes. And after watching it enough times, there was now a song that didn't exist 10 minutes ago. And I went up to him. delicate poet that I am. went, what the hell was that? What the hell? And he was modest enough. And I've heard this from other great musical artists saying, well, we don't write it. It's up there. And we're sensitive to it. We're receptors. And it comes through us. I don't know. Maybe that's the.

Ha ha ha ha.

Yeah.

Have you felt the same way? Because I've heard that from many artists, many creative people. Have you felt the same way in your situation? Alan Zweibel (33:34.994) absolutely. Absolutely that it's out there. Look, I look at some of the younger I look at John Mulaney. I look at some of these comedians, these younger guys, and I go, if I live to be a thousand, I couldn't do what they do. OK, they think differently. There's something otherworldly about I know a lot of very funny people. And everybody is good, but there are some people who are on other planes. I don't know if they hear or if they're receptive to something. My friend, Larry David, I couldn't, he's been my best friend for 50 years. Um, I 45 years and I know 50 Jesus 50. Um, uh, I w we can be in the same place, see the same thing, but he'll come at it at a different direction than I do. So once again, it's a matter of, you know, I can remember and I was talking to somebody about it the other day back at SNL. Alan Zweibel (34:40.994) There was a writer named Rosie Schuster. Okay, she was Lorne Michaels first wife. And if you remember when we were growing up on the Art Sullivan show, there was a comedy team from Canada called Wayne and Schuster. Schuster was her dad and her uncle was one of the guys who created Superman. Okay, name Joseph Schuster, okay. It was Jerry Siegel, was either Jerry Schuster or Joseph Schuster. One of them had the name Joseph, the other one, but.

That's right, yeah.

Wow. Alan Zweibel (35:08.43) created suit the two of them created Superman. Okay. And we and I was speaking to Al Franken, who I had lunch with the other day about this. And we had a meeting once where we were pitching ideas for sketches. And Rosie had this idea. I don't think was ever even made it off the page. I know it wasn't in the show. Okay.

Yep. Alan Zweibel (35:36.91) the 10 worst Hanukkah gifts ever. And number one, the worst Hanukkah gift of all time was the Hanukkah where they gave Anne Frank a set of drums. Now, fact that we remember this a half a century later, is it you go, wow, I don't think I could have written that. markekleinmd (35:54.0) That's funny. Yeah, that's a good one.

No, no, I don't think you could write that today. That's the other thing, right? No, you couldn't write that today, but it's funny. That's what I was talking about earlier. There is humor in, like I said, except tragedy. mean, obviously, is tragic, but it's so far removed that it's not immediate. So you can get, know, so you don't have, so you can appreciate the fact that it's a funny joke. It's funny, right? Alan Zweibel (36:08.856) Well, you're allowed to write that today. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. markekleinmd (36:28.4) Enid and I, as rank amateurs, but we laugh all the time, especially when we do this podcast. Going back to the other point, there's two points I want to just bring up before I forget. One is that we talk about what I've told Enid this, when I see Enid, I don't see Enid today. I see all the iterations of Enid over the years because the way time works, is that all moments exist contemporaneously. Time is a thing. It's like what I call the jukebox of time. So hopefully you'll get a chance to listen to some of the episodes we talk about this, but it's the jukebox of time. All moments exist contemporaneously. And so when I see you now, actually you look, quite frankly, almost exactly the same. I'm not just saying that. mean, you... Alan Zweibel (37:11.214) Well, know, Mark, I say broke, you know, why fool around with it? Just leave it alone.

You

Well, you're lucky because there are people, by the way, who I won't mention their names on this podcast, but I saw at one of our reunions, three of us just to let the listeners know that we all went to high school together, just to remind them. So we were at one of our reunions and there was a guy I knew very well and I've known him since I was 10. I think we were in the fifth, sixth together. And so we go back a million years and I looked at him and I really wanted to say is, who are you and what have you done with the real so-and-so? Because I couldn't believe how Alan Zweibel (37:42.686) Hahaha!

different he looked, but actually the two of look exactly the same. mean, obviously we're not older, but...

Well, I need to say this, look, because nobody who's listening to this can see us, but just so everybody knows, I'm the only one on this podcast with a full head of hair. Just saying. I said a full head of hair, I'm just saying, okay? His hair kind of starts at the, you know, and it goes back. I'm just saying.

Alan's pretty good. Come on, Sweep's got hair. He's got hair. I don't have much hair. Okay, fine. I have tufts. I do have tufts. Alan Zweibel (38:08.44) Hahaha!

No, I'm giving him credit for full head of hair. That's male, as a physician, I can tell you that it's male pattern baldness. He's not in the bald category. I, on the other hand, are right smack in the middle of that category. So, unfortunately. But what I was going to say to Zweeb was that, you know, we talked, the reason Enid brought up stressors and things is because one of the things in this podcast is through our discussion of what the aerial view is, our goal, we have a single mission in this podcast is to make lives better for people that listen. And that's why

Okay, and neither am I. I know, I've been using your forehead as a mirror to tell you the truth.

Frequently we'll send out emails encouraging people who do listen to share it because even if not, you know, we're all different We all have different tastes in music and art and and humor and food But there's among us there There is always a group that that needs some help that need a little of assistance dealing with the stresses of life the anxiety of like you mentioned that this is a very particularly stressful time, although I'm gonna bet that If was podcast if podcast existed a thousand years ago, they would have said the same thing Alan Zweibel (39:13.518) I understand.

This is a particularly stressful time because nothing really is new under the sun. So one of our goals is to help people deal with stress. And obviously what you deliver humor, I think the three of us will agree is the best better than any drug, better than any medicine. It's the best, right? Because nothing makes you feel better and you don't have a hangover afterwards. And you're not going to end up in the emergency room full of muscle, like you're from laughing too hard, unlike other things you can take to make you feel differently. So that's really one of our goals. That is our goal is to make, is give people an approach to life that makes them, that allows them to deal with stress, to deal with anxiety. For instance, you I do believe that anxiety is defeatable and people look at me and go, come on, you know, that can't be true. But it is, it is actually true. It just requires a different perspective of life. And, you know, that's the thing we spend a lot of time doing. for us, the fun about talking with you is A, we know you a long time. So we have some background together, but you have had this incredibly successful career making people laugh. you said earlier that you always want to do what you're always a little envious of what other people can do. So I'm not an envious person. Like I said, have great admiration for you. I do have, because we come from the same place, I do have... honestly, a degree of pride for what you've accomplished. I think it's just the way I am and I'm always happy for other people's successes. More happy, and Nina knows this. I think it's great. And I think that... Alan Zweibel (40:35.534) Thank you.

not to be envious, but A, you can write comedy that's extremely difficult. I've tried it. It's extremely difficult. And you've done it at a very high level. And yeah, you've made people very happy and maybe relieve stress for 10 minutes at a time or an hour at a time or a book at a time. But you have. that's a wonderful thing. That's a wonderful thing to give to people. so it's not that I'm envious of your ability. I admire it. But I would say that people who are successful in one thing can generally be successful in a lot of other things. you had to focus early on, to desire early on, and the time to focus on it, you chose comedy through the pen and you've been super successful. But my guess is you would have been successful in a lot of other things. And I feel the same way about Enid. She's one of my heroes. think what she's done is just remarkable.

Well, I appreciate that. I'm looking at the time and I know running out of it. I wanted to sort of end with something that I think has sort of, it just hit me. All right, if you insist, all right, I'll say, if you insist. Yeah, yeah. Alan Zweibel (41:44.662) A song, ain't it? Is that what you think?

You know, it's funny you should mention that. Wait a second, wait a second, Enid. Funny you should mention that because just before today, Enid was talking about singing and she likes to sing. And I've written many songs with lyrics and I told her that I could no longer sing, not that I was ever fantastic to begin with. But I do think a song would probably be appropriate.

I sing every day of my life.

I, okay, since you insist, oops, I can't, look at the clock. But no, you know, I want to say many years ago, my mother, she rest in peace, used to read Reader's Digest. And there was a column in Reader's Digest that really is the synopsis of this whole thing today. And it said, laughter is the best medicine. That was the name of the column. And she used to read it and she used to sit there and laugh. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm sitting here watching you two. Alan Zweibel (42:27.234) I remember.

And I've got on the one hand, on the one side of the screen, I've got laughter. And the other side of screen, I have medicine. So laughter is the best medicine. And I think what this show today is emblematic to me about is that you're both healers. You've both healed in your own way. You've healed yourselves and you've healed others because you made us laugh and you made us less sick.

Cry.

You gave us a colonoscopy for God's sake. So speaking of, they various thing about constipation. No, I'm sorry, you both have done the miracle, the miracle of life, the miracle of laughter, the miracle of medicine. Mark's saying that he's proud of you. I'm proud of both of you. And I'm proud to know you and I'm proud to call both of you friends. And you have made this world better.

Yeah

by your being there. And I just wanted to thank you both and say laughter is the best medicine. I thank you both for the laughter and I thank you for the medicine. And final words, both of I'll allow each of you 10 seconds for a final word. Zweeb. Alan Zweibel (43:45.582) I want to just say, and this is not necessarily in the realm of what we're talking about, but I was really, really looking forward to this, to what we're doing right now, ever since we decided that we're going to speak on your podcast. It brought back a flood of not only of memories, but the fact that the three of us are still alive. We're still functioning. We're in touch. You know, the English have this expression when you ask them how they're doing and they say, well, not bad when you consider the odds. Well, what are the odds of this? You know, and I'm very, very prideful and very, happy to have spent this time with the two of you. Ian, you look exactly the same. You're just as funny as you were. And Mark, I have followed you as you have I. And the next time I'm down in Washington, I would love I'm going to say for the two of you to take me to dinner.

We're actually happy to do that. We're actually very, very happy to do that. I would love that too. And yeah, I'll be happy to pay. I'm going to put it on that wisdom from the area through credit card. Alan Zweibel (44:49.996) Now, you'll see once you get together, I would love that.

Yeah, he's a he's a rich doctor. He'll pay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. That's good. Alan Zweibel (44:56.652) Now, you know, I No, you know, and it's really funny because where we grew up and where we went to school, I go all over the country, I give speaking engagements and this and that. You would think that there were like 11,000 people in the Ullid High School. Everybody that who's around our age, I can't speak for the years that came after us, but I can speak for, I'm still in touch with people. that who are in our class, there was something about where we grew up that I think gave us, I can't speak for everyone, but I think that there was a culture among our generation where we grew up in that school, what our senses of humor was back then that has given us this set of principles and a way of life. It's the culture of my house and I'm sure it's the culture of your houses. It's, know, God, if you can't laugh, nothing is that serious, you know?

back to the comment I made about funerals. But I will say one thing, the only thing else we talk about are connections and there is like an infrastructure to the world. It's why we have these, you know, these sudden moments when...

Right.

I'll be thinking about something, I'll thinking about Enid and two seconds later she'll send me an email or you or whatever it doesn't matter. We all have these things like, I can't believe you just called me. I was just thinking about you. Okay, these are these hidden connections we can't really explain. But I will say one thing I feel now, Enid and I talk about this. We didn't spend a lot of time together over the last 30 or 40 years, right? We actually lived fairly close, but we didn't. But there's a connection, right? I can't explain it. And maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic, which I am. Alan Zweibel (46:32.494) Right.

but a super optimist, which I am, but I do feel I'm watching, you know, we're looking at each other, our listeners cannot see us, but we're looking at each other. And I absolutely feel a connection. You know, you and I, you know, we've not kept in touch. Certainly I followed your career, but it's like we haven't said, you know, come over for dinner Thursday night, which I'm a little disappointed you didn't do that. yeah, we would have had a lot of fun, I'll tell you that. But hopefully we will. Hopefully we'll go on for a long time. Alan Zweibel (47:10.062) I understand. Alan Zweibel (47:13.634) No, no, I'm sorry. I should have called you until you make. Alan Zweibel (47:20.782) I'm gonna leave that.

But I do feel the connection. can actually almost see the connection. these are the kind of things I'm not, not, you know, I tend to be a little bit out there on some of these things, but it's, but I'm a scientist and I'm skeptical and I need, I need, I need evidence and infer and clues. And the things that I've, talked about in this podcast and we talked about today, there is an underlying connection, the line infrastructure to our lives and why we're here. And the fact that each of us have dedicate ourselves to making the world a better place in one way or another and continue to want to do that. People say to me, and I'm sure Alan, you must hear this all the time. And I think you mentioned it. Why are you still doing this? You you're a, you don't, you could probably retire and go play golf or something, but it's not, it's not on your plate. It's not on your, it's not on your dance card, nor is it on mine, nor is it on an Edith's. The fact that we're doing this explains that because we feel a sense of responsibility, a sense of purpose that we have to do this. It's not just to fulfill our own needs, but that there is something bigger. We do have a responsibility to each other. Alan Zweibel (47:58.347) yeah. Alan Zweibel (48:04.579) No.

and to this world to make it better. so that we don't go on forever. just want to personally thank you for taking the time to do this. This has been an absolute joy and I hope we get to do it again and I hope we see you soon. Alan Zweibel (48:26.956) My pleasure. Anytime and I would love to get together, who knows, maybe on my next book tour, God knows. I'll make sure that Washington is on it and I'll keep you posted about it. Let's keep in touch no matter what.

Well, of luck with your play and your new book and your new movie and you'll invite us to the opening. We'll come. All right. Enid, as always, I love you and thank you so much and thank you to all our listeners. Bye bye.

Good. Yeah. Yep. Alan Zweibel (48:52.001) I'll give you back.

Thank you both.

I love you too. Peace. Bye bye.

Okay.