Episode 22: Transitions

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome to Wisdom from the Aerial View, the podcast for those who wish to learn how to crush their anxiety and find meaning and purpose in their lives. I'm joined today as every day by Dr. Mark Klein. On today's podcast, I wanna talk about transitions, life's transitions, life changes. And what got me thinking about this was on April 19th column in the Wall Street Journal, by Peggy Noonan. It was written, of course, during and about the Holy Week and Passover. In it, she talks about the season and what it means on many different levels. She interviewed the rabbi from Midtown Manhattan's Central Synagogue, Rabbi Angela Bucholt. I hope I pronounced her name right, Buckdahl. The rabbi was speaking to a woman in her congregation about change. about transitions. The woman said she thought that the decade between 60 and 70 is the time of the most growth in a person's life. Studies emphasize adolescence, but the woman said, when you're 60, you're at the peak of your power, running the law firm. You're the most respected doctor. At 70, you're having to grapple with transitions, with who am I and the aging of the body. It's the time of confronting the big questions of life. The rabbi then said, and I quote, this is a fruitful time to ask the questions about what we want to be. We are on a journey, all of us, leaving a narrowing constricted place for a place of freedom. This is a narrative that happens in every generation and in each of our lives. So transitions, I'm intrigued by the whole notion. of transitions, transitioning from something to something else, from someplace to someplace else. And then I got to thinking about transition versus changes. Are they interchangeable,

okay. Well, the people who are listening should know that Anita didn't tell me at all what we were talking about today. So then she reads this introduction and I'm thinking, where are going with this? And then she asked me a question. All right. Fair. You know, fine. So this is a very good topic, I think, because it sounds like we're talking about older people, but in fact, this applies to people once you get cognizant of what life is about.

Right, it's more fun that way.

probably by the time you're a teenager, then these rules apply and these ideas apply. And we don't have to be worried about whether it's which decade is the decade of most growth, 60 to 70. Well, a lot of people don't get to 60. So I hope that's not it for those people who don't get to 60. So the transitions look very different from the aerial view. Now the convict.

Right, that's why I want to talk about this, because that's what it's about. Go

It's so great because conventional wisdom, know, as I've gotten older, I have unfortunately learned and I say unfortunately for a reason because it's disappointing. I've unfortunately learned that conventional wisdom is most of the time wrong. Not all the time, but too much of the time it is wrong. Our experts are wrong. What we assume to be true is wrong. We get disappointed. mean, you mean the people that run

I'm to learn.

Mm-hmm.

the world don't know what they're doing? God, I thought they did. So you begin to recognize that conventional wisdom is a trap. You need to escape from conventional wisdom on a regular basis if you want to be able to see the world more clearly and more realistically. So the reason I talk about conventional wisdom is conventional wisdom is that we evolve and we transition and we go from one phase to the other.

they're doing. God, I thought they did. So you begin to recognize that. Conventional wisdom is a trap. need to escape from conventional wisdom on a regular basis if you want to be able to see the world more clearly and more realistically. the reason I talk about conventional wisdom is conventional wisdom is that we evolve and we transition and we go from one phase to the other. And it does appear that way. And you've heard me say this before. It does appear that's what's happening.

And it does appear that way. And you've heard me say this before. It does appear that's what's happening, that there's this continuum, there's this river we're rolling down in our small canoe. And sometimes we paddle fast enough to get control of where we're going. And other times we don't paddle fast enough when the current just takes us where it's going to take us. And that's how life works. But as it turns out, that's not quite correct. And from the aerial view, we see why.

that there's this continuum, there's this river we're rolling down in our small canoe. Sometimes we paddle fast enough to get control of where we're going and other times we don't paddle fast enough when the current just takes us where it's gonna take us. And that's how life works. But if it turns out that's not quite correct. And from the aerial view we see why. From the aerial view we see that all of time exists contemporaneously. We go back to our jukebox of time which incorporates all moments of time.

From the aerial view, we see that all of time exists contemporaneously. We go back to our jukebox of time, which incorporates all moments of time. And we see time as an entity, not a progression, not from one moment to the next, because Einstein again taught us that all time exists in a sense contemporaneously. All time is out there. That's why the jukebox of time, I think, is a helpful visualization of this.

And we see time as an entity, not a progression, not from one moment to the next, because Einstein again taught us that all time exists in a sense contemporaneously. All time is out there. That's why the jukebox of time, I think, is a helpful visualization of this. So if all time is truly out there, if all moments exist as Einstein has proven contemporaneously, then there really isn't a river that's flowing, and there really aren't transitions.

So if all time is truly out there, if all moments exist as Einstein has proven contemporaneously, then there really isn't a river that's flowing and there really aren't transitions. It looks like there are, but we're just on different pages of the book, of the novel we talk about. So you and I have used the novel or I've used it, you've tolerated the metaphor of the novel as a story of how life works.

It looks like there are, but we're on different pages of the novel we talk about. So you and I have used the novel, or I've used it, you've tolerated it. The metaphor of the novel as a story of how the life works. And so we're on page 10, we're on page 50, we're on page 100, and so on.

And so we're on page 10, we're on page 50, we're on page 100, and so on. All those pages exist at the same time. We pick up a book and we start reading. If we quickly flip from page one to page 100, page 100 isn't blank, waiting for us to get there to fill in the words. Page 100 has already got words all over it. As is page 200 and 400. All those pages are already written.

All those pages exist at the same time. We pick up a book and we start reading. If we quickly flip from page one to page 100, page 100 isn't blank, waiting for us to get there to fill in the words. Page 100 has already got words all over it. I said page 200, 400, all those pages are already written. They don't wait for us to get there to have the words appear. So that's kind of how life is. That's what the two clocks of time tells us. All those moments are there. So these transitions are

They don't wait for us to get there to have the words appear. So that's kind of how life is. That's what the jukebox of time tells us. All those moments are there. So these transitions appear to be evolution transitions from one period to the next. But it's just that we're on a different page. We're on a different page in our book, which is why I am able to say at my age that we talked about this when something happens, something medical, whatever, I don't get freaked out about it.

to be evolution transitions from one period to the next, but it's just that we're on a different page. We're on a different page in our book, which is why I am able to say at my age that, we talked about this, when something happens, something medical, whatever, I don't get freaked out about it. I may not like it, I don't like it, I definitely don't like it, but I don't get freaked out about it, and I often laugh about it. I go, well here I am on page 317.

I may not like it. I don't like it. I definitely don't like it. But I don't get freaked out about it. I often laugh about it. go, oh, well, here I am on page 317. I prefer to be on page 12 when I was outside playing with my friends in the schoolyard or going to your house for a party when we were in middle school. But I'm not. I'm on page 317. And that's OK. That page has always been there, just as all the pages of my life that were not that preceded these pages are also still there, they never go away. And so this idea of transitions is different. just, the better way to look at it, not only do I think it's more accurate, but I think it's a better way because it's so much more peaceful and tranquil and pleasurable to say, now I'm on this page. Okay, I'm experiencing things that I might not like because they're associated with the age I'm at, or the, you know, let's just leave it at that, the age I'm at.

Not only do I think it's more active, I think it's a better way because it's so much more peaceful and tranquil and pleasurable to say, now I'm on this page. Okay, I'm experiencing things that I might not like because they're associated with the Asia mat or the, you know, let's just believe it at that, not the Asia mat, but it's okay. It's just, I'm getting to experience the whole shoot and match. In life, you want to experience all of it. That's.

But it's okay. It's just I'm getting to experience the whole shoot and match. In life, you want to experience all of it. That's why we're here. To make that evolution, to make that evolution, you have to experience all these things. That's why you can't pick up a manual when you're eight years old or 12 years old and say, what do I have to, let me read about life. Let me read about everything I have to learn, everything I have to experience and what other people did. And I don't have to worry about going through it. I've read it and I know it. No, life is experiential. You must go through these things. That's required.

why we're here. To make that evolution, to make that evolution, you have to experience all these things. That's why you can't pick up a manual when you're eight years old or twelve years old and say, what do I have to, let me read about life. Let me read about everything I have to learn, have experience what other people did. Now I don't have to worry about going through it. I've read it and I know it. You know, life is experiential. You must go through these things. That's required. So transitions, just to wrap this up.

So transitions, just to wrap this up, I view transitions as just arriving at a different page in the story that is your life.

I view transitions as just difference, to being arriving at a different page in a story that isn't alive. But, but, okay, are we not, again, and I asked this last time, are we in fact not just using semantics? So you're talking about, it's not a transition, it's an evolution. So what's the difference?

No, no, I'm sorry. No, I didn't explain it well enough. What I mean is, if you look at the jukebox of time, if you look from the aerial view that all time exists and that your life is a book, starts on page one and ends on whatever page it ends on, you're not necessarily transitioning. You know, when we read a book, we don't say, oh, I'm transitioning from page one to page 50, right? Where are you now? I'm on page 50. Somebody says, how's the book? Good. What page you on? I'm on page 50.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

They don't say, how is the transition from page one to page 50? Right? So it's not a transition.

But they do say, let's turn the page. Okay, but they say, let's turn the page.

Yeah, because it's true, we're going to turn the page and something else is going to happen on the next page and the next page. But all those pages are there. Again, when you read a book and you very quickly jump ahead 100 pages, the pages aren't blank. They're not waiting for you to get there to be filled in. They're there. They're already written. So is the story of our life. That's how it works. The jukebox of time. Time is an entity, not a process.

But somebody's got to write that book, right? So let's get back to the book. Okay, let's talk about the book as the metaphor. So if our life is in the book, right? I mean, it's on page 13 or page 1300, in between somebody wrote, it's a long book. Hopefully we got a long life, but who wrote that book? Who's the author of the book, Mark? Who's the author?

That's a long book.

That's such a great question. Because when you understand how time works, you don't end up with a couple of difficult questions that you have to deal with. I'm not going to tell you I know the answer, unfortunately, because I don't. Nobody does. But I can tell you that that That page is written. I don't know how and who wrote the story. I don't know. I do we each write our own story? Sometimes we find that we're just kind of in the middle of something. show up. I'll tell you a little story. You know, I like to tell these little stories, right? So when I was a resident, meaning after I finished medical school and I was in my years of training, there was a, I had a mentor who was, and I was training in radiology. It was a mentor who was a fascinating guy. was very, very smart.

Yes, yes. a mentor who was a fascinating guy. was very, very smart, very wise. He must have been at that point, I'm going to guess late 60s, maybe 70, not that old. And I just admired the heck out of this guy and everybody. Plus he was an elegant gentleman, kind of we don't see anymore. well dressed, well dressed. He was just an elegant guy in every single way. And we got to be fairly close. And then at the last year of my training, I stayed on.

very wise. He must have been at this point, I'm going to guess late 60s, maybe 70, not that old. And I just admired the heck out of this guy and everybody. Plus he was an elegant gentleman, the kind we don't see anymore. Always well dressed, well groomed. He was just an elegant guy in every single way. And we got to be fairly close. And then at the last year of my training, I stayed on to do what's called a fellowship to get a little extra training. So I was probably in terms of

So I probably, in terms of people in their training, was the most senior person in the...

people in their training. was the most senior person in the department at that point. I'd been there the most number of years. And then one day I walk into the hospital in the morning and somebody tells me he's in the emergency room. So I run over to the emergency room and I walk right into the emergency room because I'm a doctor. I spent a lot of time in that emergency room actually working there. I walk back and I see him behind one of the curtains and he looks very ill. But He looks okay. think, okay, I knew he's having a heart attack and they were treating him, but he didn't look like he was going to die. I said, okay, I know what kind of heart attack it is. It's a myocardial infarction. I know what kind it is. These people usually do pretty well. This is a long time ago. Now they do a heck of a lot better. But in those days, more people die, but still a lot of people with his particular type of heart attack survived. And I just assumed he was going to survive. He was sitting up, you know. I said, I'm not going to bother him. I'm going to walk out and I'll...

I know what kind of heart attack it is. It's a myocardial infarction. know what kind it is. These people usually do pretty well. This was a long time ago. Now they do a heck of a lot better. But in those days, more people died, but still a lot of people with this particular type of heart attack survived. And I just assumed he was going to survive. was sitting up, you know. I said, I'm not going to bother him. I'll walk out and I'll go up to his room later and I'll talk to him. And an hour later, he died. And I was stunned. And everybody was stunned.

up to his room later and I'll talk to him. An hour later, he died. I was stunned and everybody was stunned. Everybody was very upset. A day later, or maybe that same day, think a day later, the chairman of the department, who was a very famous internationally known radiologist, a guy scared the crap out of all of us, super smart guy, but he was the chairman of the department. He comes to me and he says, Mark, he says,

And a day later, or maybe that same day, a day later, the chairman of the department, who's a very famous, internationally known radiologist, got scared the crap out of all of us. Super smart guy. But he was the chairman of the department, and he comes to me and he says, Mark, he says, I would like you to give a eulogy at his funeral to represent all the students, medical students and residents he taught over the

I would like you to give a eulogy at his funeral to represent all the students, medical students and residents he taught over the years." And I'm thinking, yikes, I've never done this. So I said, I'm honored. Sure, I'll give it a shot. So fast forward, funeral comes, the place is packed with people, right? And I'm standing up there. At this point, I had not done a ton of public speaking. And I was nervous and

I've never done this. So I said, I'm honored, sure, I'll give it a shot. So fast forward, funeral comes, the place is packed with people, right? And I'm standing up there. At this point I had not done it on a public speaking. And I was nervous. And I started to give this eulogy that I had written. And at one point I get very choked up, not surprisingly, but I make my way through it.

I started to give this eulogy that I had written and at one point I get very choked up, not surprisingly, but I make my way through it. And one of things I said was that he was so smart that I would rather have the information in his brain than in the entire departmental library that had held a lot of books. In those days, there was no internet. So we finished the funerals over and one of his daughters, who's an adult, comes over to me and said, we never knew our dad was so smart. We never knew. this part of him, to tell us he was our dad. Yeah, we knew he was a doctor, but we didn't know all this. And they said, you must come back to our house now with us. So the family, know, and a few, after a death, the family goes home and there's generally a small group for at least for a while, the family. And here I am, I felt like this interloper. Like, what in the world am I doing here? It was his family, his children, their spouses, maybe a few other people, and me.

now with us. the family, know, after a death, the family goes home and there's only a small group, but at least for a while, the family. Here I am, I felt like this interloper. Like what in the world am I doing here? It was his family, his children, their spouses, maybe a few other people, and me. What in the world am I doing here? I felt like this incredible interloper. And yet, so it was almost like an out of body experience.

what in the world am I doing there? I felt like this incredible interloper. And yet, so it was almost like an out of body experience. And that is a perfect, to me in retrospect, a perfect example of the aerial view. Because in a sense, even though I was there, I was looking at this from above, from afar, as an observer. I wasn't part of this family, and here I am in the middle of it. And it allowed me to experience

That is a perfect, to me, in retrospect, a perfect example of the aerial view. Because in a sense, even though I was there, I was looking at this from above, from afar, as an observer. I wasn't part of this family, and here I am in the middle of it. And it allowed me to experience what they were experiencing, even though I was not part of the family. So what am I trying to get at here? Is that we...

what they were experiencing even though I was not part of the family. So what am I trying to get out here? Is that we look at the world in a very mundane way, the daily life that we go through, the ups and downs, but all of a sudden you're in a situation that is so foreign to you that you feel not a part of it, but as an observer apart from the situation.

look at the world in a mundane way, the daily life that we go through, the ups and downs, but when you, all of a sudden you're in a situation that is so foreign to you, that you feel not a part of it, but as an observer, apart from the situation, you get a certain perspective of the world and of life that at that point I'd never gotten before. It was really my first glimpse, in a sense, of the aerial view, to be the independent observer.

you get a certain perspective of the world and of life that at that point I'd never gotten before. It was really my first glimpse in a sense of the aerial view to be the independent observer, to watch what was going on, to realize I could be there, but I could just as easily have been somewhere else. once you experience, this is why we spend a lot of time talking about the aerial view. Once you do this, these concepts all look totally different. The concept of transition looks totally different. You know, you're

watch what was going on to realize I could be there but I could just as easily have been somewhere else. So once you experience, this is why we spend a lot of time talking about the area, once you do this, these concepts all look totally different. The concept of transition looks totally different. When you can remove yourself and look from afar to be that independent or disinterested observer, watching what's going on, the perspective of everything changes.

When you can remove yourself and look from afar to be that independent or disinterested observer, watching what's going on, the perspective of everything changes. Again, we've talked about it, it's much more tranquil, it is much more comforting. So you don't worry about my transition from middle age to senior status. It doesn't look that way. That's not...

Again, we talked about it, much more tranquil, it's much more comforting. So you don't worry about my transition from middle age to senior status. It doesn't look that way. That's not how it seems. It's just, you're just on a different page. You're just in a different place. You're in a foreign land in a sense that you weren't in before. You're in the middle of this family who's grieving when you're not part of the family, right? You see it in a totally different way and it's so much

how it seems, it's just, you're just on a different page. You're just in a different place. You're in a foreign land in a sense that you weren't in before. You're in the middle of this family who's grieving when you're not part of the family, right? You see it in a totally different way and it's so much, it's liberating. It frees you from all the emotional stress that is contained when you see yourself as being put into a

It's liberating it's it's it's from all the emotional stress that is contained when you see yourself as as being Put into a purity of your life that you don't really want to be right. I don't want to be older I want to be younger, right? So I don't know I'm making the pain here, but but the idea is to be this to take the place of to remove yourself and become the independent observer well

a period of your life that you don't really want to be in, right? I don't want to be older. I want to be younger, right? So I don't know if I'm making the point here, but the idea is to take the place of, to remove yourself and become the independent observer. And then you see these things quite differently.

I have several thoughts jumping in my head, and then I'll get back to one of them. One of them is, the first one, it's interesting that you chose the field of radiology, sort of as an observer, if you will, of the internal goings on of our bodies. I always think it's interesting to ask doctors why they chose the specialty they chose. So I'm going to ask you, maybe it has nothing to do with any of this, but why radiology?

All right, well, this answer is not going to be as interesting as you might hope. But I started in internal medicine to be a practitioner of, in a sense, what we call primary care now. But internal medicine is a specially specific type of primary care because I wanted to see patients. I love seeing patients. And then when I was in my first year of training, radiology was exploding with the coolest

I love seeing my patients. And then when I was in my first year of training, radiology

new equipment, CT scans, ultrasound, MRI had not even come on the scene yet. There were all these new, very cool things. And in those days, when you were in the hospitals, an intern, you would have to, you would draw, when I was there, we drew blood from the patients. I did it. There was no IV team or blood drawing team. There was no team. I was the team. I did everything on my patients. I'd see them in the morning. We'd go on rounds. I'd decide what tests they'd need. I'd draw their blood. I'd order their x-rays and so on.

I did There was no IV team or blood drawing team. There was no team. I was the team. I did everything on my patients. I leave in the morning. We'd go on rounds. I'd decide what tests they'd need. I'd draw their blood. I'd order their x-rays and so on. And since nothing was digital in those days, so at the end of the day, an intern or a resident has to go down and collect all the data. So you run around the hospital collecting data. You go to the lab.

And since nothing was digital in those days, so at the end of the day, an intern or resident has to go down and collect all the data. So you run around the hospital collecting data. You go to the lab because it's not showing up on your computer. There is no computer. So you run to the lab and you get the results. And then you run to radiology and you talk to the radiologist and say, my patient had a chest x-ray or whatever it is. And you go over it with them. so when I was down there, I know two things about radiology. One, these guys had the coolest new toys.

It's not showing up on your computer. There is no computer. So you run to the lab and you get the results. And then you run to radiology and you talk to the radiologist and say, my patient had a... chest x-ray or whatever it is and you go over it with them. so when I was down there, I had two things about radiology. One, these guys had the coolest new toys that were just changing medicine, opening up the inside of our bodies that we could never see before. There's a term called exploratory surgery in the old days. So if you didn't know what was causing this body with abdominal pain, the surgery would open them up and you look. There's no such thing anymore. Now you have ultrasound and CT scans and MRI scans. Nobody does exploratory surgery anymore. So that was number one.

that were just changing medicine, opening up the inside of our bodies that we could never see before. There's a term called exploratory surgery in the old days. So if you didn't know what was causing this body with abdominal pain, the surgeon would open them up and look. There's no such thing anymore. Now you have ultrasound and CT scans and MRI scans. Nobody does exploratory surgery anymore. So that was number one. It was exploding. It was probably the most exciting time in radiology. And number two, I noticed those guys in radiology were super smart and they were always happy. they were doing fun things. And the colleagues that I worked with in internal medicine were always depressed and often crying. So I said, And so they started, these guys in radiology would recruit me. They'd say, hey, you know, this is really fun. You should switch. And I went, nah, I want to see patients. And they said, no, no, you can see patients. It's all different now. So that's what happened. Yeah.

And the colleagues that I worked with in internal medicine were always depressed and often crying. And so they started, these guys in radiology would recruit me. They'd say, you this is really fun. You should switch. And I went, nah, I want to see patients. said, no, you can see patients. It's all different. Interesting. Okay. Okay, that's interesting. then, you're still the observer. But it does. But it really does. Because you're observing a patient from outside and inside, which is really interesting. To me, radiology is interesting in that you're really looking inside of people, which is what you just said. But let go back to transitions and why that notion struck me. Because you have been talking for

has nothing to do with our conversation, but it's interesting.

for weeks now, months now, about going from inward-focused to outward-focused. And to me, that said, as I was thinking about this, that's the transition. How do I transition? Whatever word you wanna use. From inward-focused to outward-focused. And so that's where I got hung up on this notion of transition, and I see that as the transition. Maybe it's just, again, a semantic thing, but isn't that basically what you're trying to do Go from inward focus to outward focus. And how do we do that if we don't transition?

So, okay, that is, I agree with you. I agree with you, Enid. That is a transition. That is a change. A change of state, let's say, know, from like, yeah, it's a wholly different way of looking at life. So where does it come from? Let's just back up a little bit. So from the aerial view, you appreciate the jukebox of time. You appreciate that all things.

Right, OK.

So from the aerial view, you appreciate that you've got the time, you appreciate that all things end at some point and yet all things live forever. Right. That's this interesting paradox that we're all going to get to that last barrier, that last record we're on, that day that we're going

end at some point and yet all things live forever. So that's this interesting paradox that we're all going to get to that last barrier, that last record we're on, that day that we're going to get everybody's last record, record representing moments of time. Everybody's last record is death, right? And yet all the records that preceded that, moment of a person's life is on a record and plays in perpetuity. So

moments of time. Everybody's last record is death, right? And yet, all the records that precede that, moment of a person's life is on a record and plays in perpetuity. no moment ever dies. Every moment is truly now in its particular place and time. So things are not just memories. They still exist. We've talked about that. That's what Einstein showed us. Past, present, and future are just a stubborn illusion. All moments are live in their particular place in the jukebox of time.

No moment ever dies. Every moment is truly now in its particular place and time. So things are not just memories. They still exist. We've talked about that. That's what Einstein showed us. Past, present, and future are just a stubborn illusion. All moments are alive in their particular place in the jukebox of time. And yet we individually run up against this barrier of death. So I like to say we never lose anybody because all the moments of their lives are going on.

And yet we individually run up against this barrier of death. So I like to say we never lose anybody because all the moments in their lives are going on in perpetuity alive just as this moment is now. And yet obviously there is an end record and all the records that follow the story of time, we're not on, right? We hit our last record or death, okay. So you're left with this visualization from the aerial view of time of life being very finite and you're very aware of it.

in perpetuity alive just as this moment is now. And yet, obviously, there is an end record and all the records that follow the story of time were not on, right? We hit our last record, okay. So you're left with this visualization from the aerial view of time of life being very finite and you're very aware of it. And you no longer are fooled by the fact that it looks like. that we act as if we do everything right in life, we're gonna win. You're disused of that concept that you can win life. There's no winning in terms of longevity. Longevity is not the point. no matter what you do, how much money you make, how powerful you are, all your accomplishments, it doesn't matter, you're hit that last record. so when you appreciate that, you're always like, what then is the purpose? Why am I here? There's two choices. Either there's no reason and life is just a chemistry experiment.

So when you appreciate that, you ask, OK, what then is the purpose? Why am I here? There's two choices. Either there's no reason, and life is just a chemistry experiment, which I can't disprove. I don't think so. I think the evidence says exactly the opposite. But somebody said to me, well, you can't prove it. went, that's true. can't prove it. So life could be a chemistry experiment. But I don't believe it. We talked about a lot of reasons why. Or there is a purpose. What's the purpose? And it's not to live as long as I can, and it's not to garner as much power or wealth or fame, because those all go to zero.

which I can't disprove. I don't think so. I think the evidence says exactly the opposite. But if somebody said to me, well, you can't prove it, went, that's true, I can't prove it. So life could be a chemistry experiment, but I don't believe it. We've talked about a lot of reasons why. Or there is a purpose. What's the purpose? If it's not to live as long as I can and it's not to garner as much power, wealth, or fame, because those all go to zero at the moment of our death, then what's the point? And then the light goes on and you go,

the moment of our death, then what's the point? And then the light goes on. You go, oh, I see. I see why I'm here. I'm here to make the most of my life. And how do you make the most of your life? By having the greatest impact. How do you have the greatest impact? By helping as many people as you can. Why are you doing that? Ah, life is

I see, I see why I'm here. I'm here to make the most of my life. And how do you make the most of your life? By having the greatest impact. How do you have the greatest impact? By helping as many people as you can. Why are you doing that? life is preparation. That's really the answer. When you look at all this in entire, to all the things we've talked about, it turns out in my view, and I think it's a very compelling story, that life is preparation. What are you preparing for? For whatever comes next. What's that? I have no idea. What tools do you need to successfully get there?

That's really the answer. Look at all this in entire, all the things we've talked about. It turns out, in my view, and I think it's a very compelling story, that life is preparation. What are you preparing for? For whatever comes next. What's that? I have no idea. What tools do you need to successfully get there? You need to make that transition, that evolution, from being inward focused to caring about me, me, me, to caring about you, you, And at the same time, to wrap this up, it makes you feel great when you do that. If you want to have a happy,

You need to make that transition, that evolution from being inward focused to caring about me, me, me, to caring about you, you, And at the same time, to wrap this up, it makes you feel great when you do that. If you want to have a happy, fulfilling life, spend as much time as you can caring about others and helping others. It's the magic formula.

So let's talk about, that's the formula, how do you get there? How do I drink the potion that gets me from inward to outward focus? How do I do that? How, in fact, then, do I transition or evolve or whatever from inward to outward focus? How do I do that?

Well, the first thing you, yeah, it's a fair question. The first thing you have to do is realize that's the point. So if you don't think that's the point, you think the point is just to be a brutal, horrible person, like, you know, like so many people, unfortunately, we know, then you're not going to get there. Then you're going to end up at the end going, oops, uh-oh. Cause on people's deathbed, don't, you know, they don't, most people feel the same way. They look back and they go, how did I do? You know, and they get a, get a realization. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross talked about this. How did I do? You know, what was my life all about?

know, then you're not going to get there. You're going to end up at the end going, oops, uh-oh. People's deathbed, most people feel the same way. They look back and

Right.

Did I waste it? Did I make a difference? What did I do? I got a lot of money. Okay, great. I can't use it anymore. As of tomorrow, I can't spend it. So you have to get that realization. Whereas then it's a matter of, how do you do it? Practice. Once you realize it, then you need to... We talked about how accomplishments are important to build that self-esteem. So you got to start when you're young. You build the self-esteem through accomplishments and relationships. Through relationships, we understand...

So you gotta start when you're young, build the self-esteem through accomplishments and relationships. Through relationships we understand, we garner the...

we garner the essence of what life is of love and sharing and caring. And so it's a long process, doesn't it? You can't just say, tomorrow I want to be outward focused. You can start, right? But you have to build that persona first. You have to build that person of... substance that I like to talk about who has self-esteem based on real accomplishments. That's because somebody said, here, here's a box of self-esteem. That doesn't work. You got to earn it and you earn it through your accomplishments. And accomplishments are also related to how you treat people. You help somebody. If you're 12 years old and you're walking down the street and your neighbor takes her groceries out of the car and they all spill out and you go over and help that person, that's great. That's training. That you're making that

12 years old and you're walking down the street and your neighbor takes her groceries out of the car and they all spill out, and you go over and help that person, that's great. That's training, right? You're making that, you're starting to care about other people, not me, but them. And the younger you start, the better off you are. But it's not never too late, ever, ever, to it. Start the day before you die, after. Just.

you're starting to care about other people, not me, but them. And the younger you start, the better off you are. But it's not never too late, ever, ever, ever. can start the day before you die if you have to. Just do it. And it's practice. you say, OK, when you find yourself focusing on yourself, that's not fair. I'm a victim of this. I'm a victim of that. That's a losing proposition. Don't do that. Turn it around. Say no.

Just do it. And it's practice. you say, when you find yourself focusing on yourself, that's not fair. I'm a victim of this, I'm a victim of that. That's a losing proposition. Don't do that. I'm responsible for my own behavior. can only be diminished by my own misdeeds. If somebody mistreats me, that's not their problem. That's not my problem, that's their problem. If they mistreat me, I don't have to worry as long as I didn't mistreat them. These are the things you practice as you go along and then you change that focus from me, me, me, woe is me, to I'll be fine because I'm working on it, but I'm going to spend my time trying to help other people as much as I can. As you do that, that markekleinmd (25:34.1) I'm responsible for my own behavior. I can only be diminished by my own misdeeds. If somebody mistreats me, that's not their problem. That's not my problem, that's their problem. If they mistreat me, I don't have to worry as long as I didn't mistreat them. So these are the things you practice as you go along. And then you change that focus from me, me, me, woe is me, to I'll be fine because I'm working on it, but I'm going to spend my time trying to help other people as much as I can. And as you do that, that builds more self-esteem, that gives you a stronger persona. And you're making, and you slowly don't even realize that you're making this evolution from selfish to selfless, from inward to outward focus. It just happens by practice, by continuing. Every time you find yourself focusing on yourself, stop.

more self-esteem, that gives you a stronger persona. you're making, and you're slowly, don't even realize that you're making this evolution from selfish to self-lesson, inward to outward focus. It just happens by practice, by continuing. Every time you find yourself focusing on yourself, stop. Turn the camera around. As soon as it happens, realize that I'm paying more attention to myself and my own needs than those of other people. And when you stop focusing on your own needs and stop feeling put upon or taken

Turn the camera around. As soon as it happens, realize that I'm paying more attention to myself and my own needs than those of other people. And when you stop focusing on your own needs and stop feeling put upon or taken advantage of and you focus on other people, you start to make that evolution. So you're preparing. And number two is you're to feel a million times better. Who doesn't want to feel a million times better? That's what's so great about this, right? It's a win, win, win, win, win situation.

You know, it's funny, in my world, the nonprofit world, we're always looking for people to be philanthropists, to feel, they feel good about themselves. And when you meet these folks, these are people with a lot of, lot of, lot of money, and they give it away to make the world better. So I was thinking that that philanthropy should be not just only about money. It should be about what you're talking about. You don't have to give away money to feel good about yourself. In fact, there are many philanthropists, I don't know if there many, but there are philanthropists who are really not good people. They just happen to have a lot of money and they give it away, maybe to make themselves feel better for the misdeeds that they do. maybe one of the things we ought to be striving for in the world is to have more philanthropists, not just monetary philanthropists, but... socially dedicated philanthropists, those who are outwardly focused as opposed to inwardly focused and who have gone from selfish to selfless. And maybe that's what philanthropy is, and more than just giving money.

Yeah, I agree. think but I think all of us could do it. And it's hard, you know, in a sense that it's hard to start to do. I'll give you an example. People call me almost every day, especially when I was, you know, seeing patients full time. But even now, people call me regularly, right, from all walks of life. And they got a problem, right. And they just need somebody to listen to or just help them, you know, just emotionally. And it's very easy to say, look, I got an appointment. I can't do this now. can't, you know, I got something to do or gee, I was planning to go take a bike ride or a walk. But I stop myself now and I say, okay, it's not about you. It's not about you. Help this person as best you can. And most of the time, there's not much I can do. But I listen, I support, maybe I'll give a little advice.

Yeah.

Maybe it's worth something, maybe it's not, but at least somebody knows that you care about them. So that's how you start, right? You don't have to give a million dollars. You don't have to build a building. You don't have to travel across the world to care for people in a war zone. mean, these are great things to do, but most of us aren't going to do those. But you could do a little bit. Just concentrate less on yourself and more on somebody else.

Maybe it's not, but at least somebody knows that you care about them. So that's how you start, right? You don't have to give a million dollars. You don't have to build a building. You don't have to travel across the world to care for people in a war zone. mean, these are great things to do, but well, sorry I can't do those, but you can do a little bit. You can just concentrate less on yourself and more on somebody else.

and you're gonna make that evolution. That's what happens. Then you feel better. Then you're on the road to preparation. You're getting towards completing your mission. And it all starts from the appreciation from the aerial view. That's why the aerial view was so critical.

you're gonna make that evolution. That's what happens. Then you feel better. Then you're on the road to preparation, getting towards completing your mission. And it all starts with appreciation from the aerial view. That's why the aerial view is so critical. Right, and I guess on that note, I'm looking at the time and we're just about out. And so I end, as I usually do, with your own words from your book, the great book, Wisdom from the Aerial View, the superpower that can change your life and this world. And this is a chapter on change. And I guess, I got to this chapter. I called it transition, change, whatever. But let me read your exact words from this chapter. From the perspective of the aerial view, we appreciate that change is a master teacher. It forces us to accept those things that remain beyond our control and redirects our focus to those over which we maintain dominion. What we make of our allotted time on this earth, whether we've been whether we bring peace and joy or violence and sorrow, whether we create or destroy, whether we take care of only ourselves or focus on the welfare of others. These are the choices that we will determine the value of our lives and the fate of our species. Profound. I thank you for that. I thank you for this chapter. I thank you in this book. I thank you for this conversation. And most important to me, I thank you for our friendship. Final words, Doc?

Ditto. Yeah, well, I feel the same way. And, you know, I love these conversations. I hope they make an impact on people. We're trying to help as many people as we can. I hope our words and our discussions, you know, do that in a small way. Thank you, Enid, so much as always. And thank you, everybody, for listening. See you next time.

Thank you, Edith, so much as always, and thank you everybody for listening. Thank you. We'll see you next time. Peace.