Episode 2: Purpose

Welcome to episode two of Wisdom from the Area of View. I'm Enid Borden and I'm here to talk to Dr. Mark Klein about this wonderful book that he's written and we're gonna delve into it. Today, we're gonna talk a little bit about something that he talks a great deal about in the book and that's purpose. Why are we here? What is our purpose? In the last episode, you talked about that you reached, you have, as a physician, you reached over 100,000 people. which is astounding when you think about it in all sorts of terms.

All that means really is that I'm And I did it for a long time, right?

Well, means you probably made a lot of money, which is good. Maybe not. You didn't do it for the money. I know that. But we talk about, you know, what's our purpose in life? And I think one of the things you said in the book very clearly, and you say all the time is what is our purpose? Why are we here and what are we supposed to be doing? I want to, one quote that I always liked was from former Secretary General of the UN, Kofi Annan. He said, to live, is to choose, but to choose well, you must know who you are and what you stand for, where you want to go, and why you want to get there, is to know who you are. What is your purpose? So let's talk about that, Doc. What is our purpose?

Okay. talk about why purpose is important. So, you we live in a society and we live in a world with about 8 billion people, right? I think it's going to go up to about 10 billion or so, and then it's going to level out. Hopefully we won't blow each other up and we'll continue somewhere around that number. So anyway, there's a lot of people, right? We got to all get along. And the question is, why should you behave in a manner that you care about those other 8 billion people? Why should you be kind to people? Why should you be generous?

Okay.

Why should you not be violent? Why should you embrace peace? Why should you not steal things? Why should you not walk down the street and knock somebody up their bike and steal it? Why, you know, all these things, you know, because to have a cohesive society, we need that, right? We can't have people we talked about, you know, we have these school shootings, we have these things that go on. You know, we don't want that. We want to be able to live in peace and harmony, but.

Yeah.

and be kind to each other and not steal from each other and not take advantage of each other. Okay, so somebody might say to you, a teenager might come up to you and say, well, why? Who says? Who says I shouldn't do those things? You say, well, you know, it's the Ten Commandments or the Bible or the Quran or whatever you want. They go, well, it's just a book. Who cares? That doesn't mean anything to me. Now you're stuck. You go, okay, how do I make the case that you should behave in a manner which you and I and most people would think is admirable? so that we can have a cohesive society and we can live together and not have to live behind arm bars with AK-47s or whatever, AR-15s. So that's why purpose is important. It's important because if we don't agree on purpose,

That's why purpose is important. It's important because if we don't agree on purpose, then we won't agree on set of standards and rules by which we...

then we won't agree on a set of standards and rules by which we agree to live. If you don't agree upon standards and rules, then you got chaos and anarchy. So that's why purpose is important because you can't build a society without purpose. Now, the good news is, I think we can discover that purpose. I spent the first 10 chapters of this book or so talking about purpose. We're going to talk about that. So for starters,

We don't agree upon standards or rules, they got chaos in our society. So that's why purpose is important, because you can't build a society without purpose. Now the good news is, I think we can discover that purpose. I spent the first 10 chapters of this book or so talking about purpose, we're gonna talk about that. So, for starters, let's talk about why we have this...

Let's talk about why we have this sense inside that we have purpose. So everybody, I would say it's fair to say most people have a sense that they're here for a reason. They're not exactly sure why. So we have to look at some, we have to find some clues to help us figure this out. Okay. I sense there's a purpose to life, but I really don't know what it is for sure. And I don't have any proof of it. So how am I going to figure this out? Where am I going to get these things? So we're going to be detectives.

sense inside. So everybody, I would say it's fair to say most people have a sense that they're here for a reason. They're not exactly sure why. So we have to look at some, we have to find some clues to help us figure this out. Okay, I sense there's purpose to life, but I really don't know what it is. Sure, and I don't have any proof of it. So how am I going to figure this out? Where am I going to get these things? So we're going to be detectives. We're going to be detectives and look for clues.

We're going to be to Texas and look for clues and see if we can piece something together that makes sense. So here's a good one that I really like. And I call it, I call our lives backward lives. So we talked in the last episode, how we've known each other for a billion years and we were started, met in junior high school. And, you know, and at that point we were kind of dopey, right? We didn't know that much, right? Would you agree with that?

Well, you were, yes. Of course.

I knew you were going to say that, but that's true. That is accurate, right? Right. That is accurate. Okay. That's what kids are. Now we stop and think about it and go, hmm, that seems a bit peculiar. very, we're born, newborns are helpless. They can't do a single thing for themselves. They don't know anything at all. They need help. And then we get, move forward. We get to be kids. Now we can do some things for ourselves.

That's what kids are, but that's what kids are, right?

but we really don't know anything. We're really kind of dopey, right? And then as teenagers, we do really stupid things. I mean, really stupid things. And when we finally get to our age, you've kind of put things together and now you're less likely to do crazy, stupid, dangerous things, right? We're not gonna jump off a cliff into a body of water, which we do not know the depth of, right? We're not gonna do that. We're probably not gonna drive at 100 miles an hour without a seatbelt on.

or even we're probably not gonna wear a bathing suit good I'm just saying

I'm a guy, even I no longer like to wear bathing suits. That just does to sell you something. Right. Exactly. So at any rate, but anyway, the point is we're dumb when we're young and we're smart when we're old. But when you think about it, that doesn't make any sense because it used to be the number one cause of death among teenagers was accidents. I think now it's actually might be suicide.

I know. Yeah.

Yeah.

It is indeed.

Yeah, you know a lot about that. But accidents are a major, major cause of death among teenagers, young people. So when you stop and think of it, it would make a lot more sense if we were really smart in the beginning when it really mattered, right? So we wouldn't do stupid things, we wouldn't do dangerous things, we'd be much more productive, we could make a lot more of our lives early on. And then we've got to our age and beyond, okay, if you do something stupid, who cares, right? You don't have that much more to go. The risk is low.

center, a major, major class.

think of it, it would make a lot more sense if we were really smart in the beginning, when it really mattered, right? So we wouldn't do stupid things, we wouldn't do dangerous things, we'd be much more productive, could, you know, make a lot more of our lives early on, and then we got to our age and beyond, okay, if you do something stupid, who cares, right? You don't have that much more to go, the risk is low. But our lives are backwards, upside down. So instead of being smart when we're younger, it makes a whole lot more sense. From a survival point of view, you talk about survival,

but our lives are backwards, upside down. So instead of being smart when we're young, where it makes a whole lot more sense, and from a survival point of view, if you talk about survival of the fittest and genes that should be propagated generation to generation, if anyone has had a gene that we were smart when we were young, that one should really propagate, because that would help us all survive. We wouldn't have these accidents when we were teenagers. We wouldn't do stupid things. And when we had the most life ahead of us, that's when we'd be the smartest. That makes the most sense from a species point of view.

and genes that should be propagated generation to generation. If anyone has had a gene that was smart when we young, that one should really propagate, because that would help us all survive. We wouldn't have these accidents when we were teenagers. We wouldn't do stupid things. And when we had the most life ahead of us, that's we'd be the smartest. That makes the most sense in the species point of view. But we're not. It's exactly the opposite. We're really dopey when we're young, and we get smart as we get older. That seems to be an awful waste of time. Unless...

But we're not. It's exactly the opposite. We're really dopey when we're young and we get smart as we get older. That seems to be an awful wasted time. Unless, unless there's a purpose to learning as we go. Right? So if we think the purpose of life is longevity, live as many years as you can, as many days as you can, Okay, then it would make more sense to be smart when we're younger and we wouldn't do stupid things and we wouldn't die. There wouldn't be so many deaths among teenagers. If the purpose of life is longevity, but if the purpose of life is not longevity, if it's something else, then all of a sudden the way it is that we gradually learn over time and get smarter and smarter till the end as if we're preparing for something, then it would make a lot of sense.

Okay.

That's a really good clue. Maybe the fact that we're dumb when we're young and smart when we're old is a clue to purpose, meaning we got a lot to learn to prepare for what comes next. So people say to me, do you believe in a hereafter? No, I believe in something else. Hereafter, know, make it sound like, know, do I believe in heaven? Not the way people think. My personal feeling, and I've no, I can't support this, and I'm not selling this to anybody.

I believe in something else. Hereafter, you know, make it sound like, you know, do I believe in heaven? Not the way people think. My personal feeling, and I know I can't support this, but I'm not selling this to anybody, but to me the clues point to the fact that we have another topic, that we are prepared. And the reason our lives are the way they are, or young, smart or old, is because we're preparing for something. Okay, that implies purpose. So the fact that we're dumb or young and smart or old implies purpose. We got a lot to learn.

But to me, the clues point to the fact that we have another job to do, that we are preparing. And the reason our lives are the way they are, dumb when we're young and smart when we're old, is because we're preparing for something. Okay, that implies purpose. So the fact that we're dumb when we're young and smart old implies purpose. We got a lot to learn until we're ready for whatever comes next. So that means, well, so maybe the purpose of our lives is to prepare, maybe preparation for what comes next. That could be a purpose.

So then our purpose is not longevity, but it's what we're doing while we're still here. You can see I work with my whole thing is about older.

Let's keep that in mind as we go forward.

No.

adults, et cetera, et And you watch older people and we are. And it's about, we become a little more sanguine about things. We're not as stressed maybe as we get older because been there, done that. And maybe not so nervous about what's ahead of us, which is sort of interesting. When I meet with people who are elderly and they're not worried about dying. They're saying, I've lived. I've lived good. I've done. I've done my thing. I'm ready. Is it because they found their purpose? I don't know. I don't know. That I don't know. You tell me. What are they ready for?

Ready for what? Ready for what? Okay. So I think, well, you've talked to a lot of elderly people, as have I. You probably more than me. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, for those people who don't know who is, she was a psychiatrist. And when people talk about death and dying, the five stages of anger and acceptance and great blah, blah, Okay. Those five stages. That's Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. Very interesting woman.

I have.

and wrote many books of which the most famous is probably On Death and Dying, which helps people understand those phases of getting to death and accepting all the things we talked about. But she did something else. In the latter part of her career, she got very interested in what comes next. She and her staff talked to, I don't know, 20,000 people who were either near death or some had near death experiences. and talked him and she learned a lot. So she would say to you, let's talk about longevity for a second. If you were to say to her, Dr. Kubler-Ross, is longevity the purpose of life? After she stopped laughing, she would look at you and say, no, dear, you could live a day and have a fulfilling life. How long you live is irrelevant. She's also had a lot of things to say about time, which we'll get to maybe later to going back to what we talked about in the last episode. But longevity,

But longevity to her is clearly not.

to her is clearly not the purpose of life, right? And people, as they get closer to death, most people fear it less, not everybody, but most people fear it less. And the question is why? Why do they fear it less? Because they have a sense of something else. They have a sense that it's not the closure that we think. And the clue is that we're gonna talk about more of them. We just talked about one, that backward lives idea, that...

And people, they get closer to death, most people fear it less. It's not everybody, but most people fear it less. the question is, why? Why do they fear it less? Because they have a sense of something else. They have a sense that it's not to close you that we think. And the clue is that we're going to talk about more of them. We just talked about one that we act the lives out of. That we should be smart. If longevity was the purpose of life, we should be smart when we're young and stupid when we're older.

If longevity was the purpose of life, we should be smart when we're young and stupid when we're old and it's backwards, right? Which only makes sense if there's a reason to learn all the way along to prepare yourself for what comes next. And so for me, heaven is not this place where you sit around and drink pina coladas all day and whatever, or whatever your thing is, right?

It only makes sense if there's a reason to learn all the way along to prepare yourself for what's coming. And so for me, heaven is not this place where you just sit around and drink a lot of vodka. Or whatever you think it is. I think there's something else I cannot begin to...

I think there's something else. cannot begin to tell anybody what it is. I have no clue. I'm a bit curious, but I think I would prefer to hang around here a little longer. But still, I am a bit curious. I will admit that. So purpose is very important. So if we accept the fact that all the evidence is that longevity is not the purpose of life and that there's some other purpose of life,

You haven't been there yet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Just the fact that we're dumb when we're young and old later on, that's a very important clue. Here's another one. Let's talk about history. So people love history. They read about it. You have all these series on Netflix and Amazon Prime, all historically based, fascinating people of history. And of course, how many people have said to ignore history is to repeat it. OK, we need to retire that. I guess we do. We repeat it as societies. I mean, There's still wars going on as far as I can see. And we've known for, we've seen what's happened in past wars and they never work out well, never.

But you know, let me stop you here for a second. If your thesis about the jukebox, that everything's happening at the same time, that in fact history...

That's not my thesis, by the way. That's Einstein.

and you're not? I guess I'm on the wrong podcast. But, so does my dog. the, but the point being, and my dog is dead, but the point being that, that if history is still ongoing, there is no past, there is no historical, there's nothing.

He had more hair than I do.

You

No, no, there is a past. It's actually still going, right? It's the past to us. It's always the present to those moments, but to us, it's the past, but they're still active. That's a different idea of what we're talking about. But to ignore history is to repeat it. I mean, that's such a silly statement because we keep doing the same things again and again. So look, we do...

Just keep going. So it's the present.

Okay, I know. Okay, keep going.

Okay.

Each generation pretty much repeats the same thing as their prior generation. We have the same relationships, the same problems with people, the same ups and downs, the same course of our lives. Okay, now we're using laptops and iPhones and whatever, a lot of high tech stuff. And the next generation will be using AI all the time. But the idea of life, the interpersonal relationships, all the things we go through, the ups and downs.

Each generation pretty much repeats the same thing as their prior generation. We have the same relationships, the same problems with people, the same ups and downs, the same course of our lives. Okay, now we're using laptops and, know, phone, iPhones, whatever. A lot of high tech stuff. In the next generation, we're using AI all the time. the idea of life...

This is the same as every other generation before. There is literally nothing new under the sun. Societies repeat, right? So we know from history that the Roman Empire lasted what, 500 years, give or take, 600 years? I don't know, whatever it was. It didn't last forever. Societies come, societies go. know, the United States is Pax Americana. We hope it goes on for a while, but... It's naive to believe it will go on forever. It won't, Societies repeat the same things again and again. Individuals repeat the same things again and again. That is peculiar. Why don't we learn anything? Why are we doing the same things again, generation after generation? Why do we still have wars? Why do we still have these same interpersonal issues that our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents and people who lived a thousand years ago had? Romeo and Juliet, right? How many times has that story been repeated? Right? So that is peculiar. It's not like we can pick up a book when we're five and go, here's what life is. Here's what relationships are. Here's how you do it right. Here's how societies work best. Don't have wars. Don't enslave people. Treat everybody well. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? We know what works and yet we keep doing the same things again and again. That's crazy. And it's a clue.

Romeo and Juliet, right? How many times has that story been repeated? Right? So, that is peculiar. It's not like we can pick up a book when we're five and go, here's what life is, here's what relationships are, here's how you do it right, here's how societies work best, don't have wars, don't enslave people, treat everybody well, blah, blah, blah, right? We know what works, yet, we keep doing the same things again and again. That's crazy, and it's a clue.

Why don't we learn from previous generations? Why do we repeat history again and again again, both as societies and cultures and individuals? Why? that's a clue. For some reason, each of us has to go through this. Each of us has to go through all the highs and lows, the losses, the love, the gains, whatever. We all have to go through this. Why can't we just read a book about it? There's something about the experience that's important. Why? purpose.

Purpose.

preparation, these clues. we win, you I am going to what you would call an iconoclast, meaning I think I'm pretty sure that most conventional wisdom turns out to be wrong. And I question everything, everything, know, something on a basic level of the news. You can read the New York Times, which I do, and the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post. You can listen to Fox News or CNN or MSNBC, there's all these things, right? And people choose what they want to listen to, right? I don't pay attention to any of it. If I hear something on, let's say, CNN, then I'll call my cousin who gets the New York Post and ask if he's seen it there or vice versa. If I see something on Fox News, I look at all this stuff, right? Just for interest. then I'll go to the New York Times and see, it in there? Right? So I'm always questioning, this is very mundane stuff. It's really not important, but that's because I don't trust it. That's the way you have to look at all of the world, all of life. You have to question everything. People say, well, why do we repeat history? Well, it's just the way it is. Why do individuals repeat the same things their parents and grandparents do? It's just the way there is. It is. No, that's not an excuse. And I'm to tell you why. Again, we're going to probably tease something we're going to talk about ahead of time, but

You have to question everything. People say, why do we repeat history? Well, it's just the way it is. Why do individuals repeat the same things their parents and grandparents? It's just the way it is. No, that's not an excuse, and I'm going to tell you why. Again, we're going to probably tease something we're going to talk about ahead of time.

We talked about Einstein last episode, and that's physics, right? And there's another area of physics called quantum physics, which is the craziest thing you've ever heard about, but it explains why computers work, why solid things don't fall apart. Quantum physics is the basis of everything in this universe, and it's the most proven theory of all time. But it has some crazy ideas, crazy ideas. For instance,

We talked about Einstein last episode, and that's physics, right? And there's another area of physics called quantum physics, which is the craziest thing you've ever heard about, but it explains why computers work, things, why solid things don't fall apart. Quantum physics is the basis of everything in this universe, and it's the most proven theory of all time. But it has some crazy ideas, crazy ideas. For instance, you can never know anything with certain, never know anything with certain.

You can never know anything with certainty. You can only know the probability of something. There's all kinds of crazy things about quantum physics. So why do I mention quantum physics? Because one of the things about quantum physics is a theory that's really probably true, that there are an infinite number of universes in this that exist.

So why do I mention quantum physics? Because one of things about quantum physics is a theory that's really probably true that there are an infinite number of universes in this. that exists. don't even say in the world, but it does exist. Which means we live in one universe. know, have our solar system, the Milky Way, and if we had our solar system, then the Milky Way, galaxy. There are hundreds of millions of stars in our galaxy, and there are probably a hundred, I mean a hundred billion, there's hundred, more than a hundred billion galaxies. Our universe is really, really big, right? And it's probably only one of the infinite universes. And why do I bring this crazy thing up? Because it turns out that because there are almost an assuredly infinite number of universes,

I don't even say in the world, but it exists, which means we live in one universe. know, have our solar system, the Milky Way, and then have our solar system, then the Milky Way, our galaxy, and there are hundred million stars in our galaxy, and there are probably a hundred, I mean, a hundred billion, there's a hundred, more than a hundred billion galaxies. Our universe is really, really big, right? And it's probably only one of infinite universes. And why do I bring this crazy thing up? Because it turns out that because there almost are assuredly infinite number of universes, We exist differently in different universes and the rules, the laws of physics could be different in other universes. So for instance, in our universe, cells die, we age, we die. We go, well, that's just the way it is. It doesn't have to be that way. Our DNA, which is software, could be written so that no cell ever died, that we never died. The idea that life is short,

rules, the laws of physics could be different in other universities. So for instance, in our universe, cells die, we age, we die. We go, well that's just the way it is. It doesn't have to be that way. Our DNA, which is software, could be written so that no cell ever dies, that we never die. The idea that life is short might be a statement that is accurate only in our universe. It could be different. Everything could be different. But in our universe,

might be a statement that is accurate only in our universe. It could be different. Everything could be different. But in our universe, we do age. People do die. These things happen and we just accept them as the way they are. But it doesn't have to be this way. That's another huge clue. The fact that our universe... I lost you. I cannot hear you for some reason.

So should we not shoot so we shouldn't accept it as it is you can't hear me

Time out.

You can't hear me.

Can you hear me now? sorry, I apologize. I lost my connection. So I apologize to everybody out there. I'm back.

I've always heard you, yes. That's okay. That's all right. But anyway, so here's my question then was, by questioning all these things, isn't that rather negative? In other words, if I question it, means I don't necessarily believe it. If I don't believe it, to me that brings somewhat of an angst. In other words, I don't believe that, I'm worried about, and why don't I believe it? Do I not believe it because I don't trust? Do I believe it, not believe it because I don't believe that there's a purpose to believe? Explain this to me.

OK, it's a fair question. I'll try and do better. So, yes, if you just stop and question everything and you don't trust anything, then you're in a bad place. But if asking these questions leads you to more knowledge and more wisdom and eventually ends up in a place that I call the aerial view, that's great. Because once you get to the aerial view, you don't have to worry about any of those things. all is seen in a completely different perspective, a much more peaceful, relaxed, purposeful

That's right.

get to the aerial view.

perspective. just getting back to this purpose, the reason I bring up these crazy things about multiple universes, blah, because we just accept the fact that life is as it is. We're dumb when we're young, we get sick, we die, our cells die, we die, all these things. We just accept that history is repeated. We all do the things our parents and grandparents did. We just accept this as that's just the way it is. But it's just the way it is in our particular world. And the reason physics is important.

young, we get sick, we die, our cells die, we die, all these things. We just accept that history is repeated. We all do the things our parents and grandparents did. We just accept that that's just the way it is. But it's just the way it is.

is because we know from quantum physics and from things people like Stephen Hawking that there are most likely an infinite number of universes where the rules could be completely different, where our lives could be completely different. The fact that our lives are as they are in this particular world we live in is a clue. It's a clue to purpose, which is how we started this episode 20 minutes or so ago. Right. These are clues to purpose. it doesn't have to be this way.

It doesn't have to be this way. Cells don't have to die. I don't have to die, but I do. I'm dumb when I'm young and I'm smarter when I'm old. It doesn't have to be this way in another universe, but in this one it is. These are clues to purpose. And they start to all point this in the same direction. That we live for a reason, that we are preparing. Now, I don't want to make people crazy and think, I'm talking about some mysterious unknown world, a future where, you know, you know.

Cells don't have to die. I don't have to die, but I do. I'm dumb when I'm young and I'm smarter when I'm old. It doesn't have to be this way in another universe, but in this one it is. These are clues to purpose. And they start to all point us in the same direction. Prep that we live for a reason, that we are preparing. Now I don't want to make people crazy and think, I'm talking about some mysterious unknown world or future where, you know, aliens live. No, no, no, no. We're talking about

alien blimp, no, no, no, no. We're talking about human beings and our lives and that understanding our purpose is so important because that's again how we get to a world where can agree on standards and rules. If we disagree on purpose, if we think, give an example, let's say I think there's a purpose and we've got to prepare and we have to become the best people we can be and therefore,

human beings in our lives and that understanding our purpose is so important because that's again how we get to a world where we can agree on standards and rules. If we disagree on purpose, we think, give you an example, let's say I think there's a purpose and we've got to prepare and we have to become the best people we can be and therefore for me in my life, how I treat people is important. Kindness is important. Generosity is important. not judging people or I call judging people favorably is important. For instance, if I give somebody the benefit of doubt and he proved to be a jerk, the truth is I'm not diminished by that. One of the things you're going to hear me say a lot is that you're never diminished by the misdeeds of others, only by your own. You don't have to worry about how other people act. You just have to worry about yourself. So in my view, there's reason for me to behave in this way. Now, let's say you think you don't believe any of that and you think, nah, there is no purpose.

I just, there's a reason for me to behave in this way. Now let's say you think you don't believe any of that. You think, nah, there is no purpose. Then you can go out and murder, do you want. Who cares? No purpose, what the heck? I'll get as much money as I

then you can go out and steal, murder, do whatever you want. Who cares? There's no purpose, what the heck? You know, I'll get as much money as I can, I'll get as much power as I can, I'll become as famous as I can, and if anybody gets in my way, I'll just step on them, I'll shoot them, I'll push them off the building, right? Because if there's no purpose, then you're perfectly, it's a perfectly legitimate way to feel. Now, it's not a good way to build a society. It won't work. If everybody's doing what Enid's doing and acting in that way, we don't have a society, it's impossible. But if people see the world the way I see it, then we can really, it's easy to agree upon a set of rules and regulations by which we want to live. And then we focus on each other rather than ourselves. And now we got something. But the only reason to believe that's true is if to look at the clues and help us point to purpose. If I'm correct, and I'm pretty sure I am, I mean, I don't want to be dogmatic because I've been wrong a lot of times in my life, but I've been thinking about this for a long time. And I do think that the clues that we discussed so far and we will discuss more of, Stop pointing us in the direction of longevity is not the purpose, power and money are not the purpose. And I'll just give you a quick answer why power and money are not the purpose of life. Because they go away. The instant you die, boom, they go to zero. Right? I don't care. Who's the most famous person that ever lived, would you say, in the Western world?

The most famous person who ever lived? Hard one, I don't know. Yeah.

Can I give you mine? Okay, you don't have to spend a lot of time thinking about it. I would go with Jesus, right? I'm gonna go with Jesus. How long has Jesus been famous?

I was going to say, I actually was going to say Jesus.

Longer than we've been alive, obviously. Okay.

2000 years, right? We're in the year 2025, almost 2024, right? So, a little over 2000 years he's been famous, right? The earth is 4. something billion years old, the universe is 14 billion years old. So, if you look at the ratio, Jesus has been famous for an infinitesimally tiny bit of time, and yet he's the most famous person. So, even the most famous people leaving Jesus out, they come, they go, right? We don't remember most of the other people other than a handful of these people. Money, boy, when you die, that money's gone. Either the government takes it or you give it away or your kids waste it or whatever. So whatever money you have, that's not going to hang around very long either. So we've kind of proven why longevity or shown why longevity is not the purpose of life. And I can tell you for sure, fame and fortune and power are not the purpose of life because they go away the instant you die.

or you give it away, or your kids waste it, or whatever, right? So whatever money you have.

You know, there's an irony here and I'm throw it out at you. As a physician and someone comes to you, a patient comes to you to be, basically to live longer, to think about longevity. I didn't go to the doctor, I was sick, I needed a cure, I had cancer, he cured me, whatever, or she cured me about my longevity. So we're really, in many respects, longevity is how we are from birth on. That's what we think about. We think about, we gotta keep living. We gotta keep living. You said it yourself in this episode. You said, not that I'm ready to go yet. So the whole notion of longevity, doesn't it in many respects, it's what I do while I am still here, what really is my purpose. And the longer that I can do this, maybe the better for society or maybe certainly the better for me. So.

Well.

And I guess it's the question of, in my world, we're talking about is health span versus lifespan. And in your world, same thing. So, okay. markekleinmd (26:32.0) Well, that's what I was going to get at. That when you go to the doctor, I'll give you an example. Let's say I had appendicitis a few months ago. So forgetting the fact that if it perforated, ruptured, it theoretically could have killed me, but that's not very common. It does happen. But I had terrible pain. So I went to the doctor, to the hospital, because I had pain. And I didn't want to be in pain. So a lot of what we do is to improve that health span what you're talking about. But how long we live is a different story. for instance, if you figure it out at a very early age, then the rest of the time, I'm not saying it's worthless, but it's not quite as important if you view something other than this life on Earth. If you're only looking at this, then of course that makes sense. But all the clues we've talked about and we'll talk about,

Okay.

point to something else, right? So that's what you have to keep in mind. And when you understand that, then we talked about anxiety. Anxiety about things like that kind of go away. So we're going to talk a lot about death in one of these episodes, which is one of my favorite topics and is the single most important clue to purpose in my view, right? I don't worry about death. Now, people say, OK, you've lived a long life. OK, but great. I mean, I'm not that old and not 100 years old. And I had an uncle who died at 102 a few months ago.

Yeah.

years old. I had an uncle who died a few months ago.

So yeah, I got a long way to go in terms of potential lifespan, but I don't worry about it. I don't worry about it at all. I never worry about it. As I mentioned earlier, I'm a little bit curious, but I have kids, I have grandchildren, I like you, I like doing this podcast. You know, a lot of things I like doing, so I'd like to continue. But if I don't, right, that's okay too. That's fine. And it's when you get to the aerial view and you appreciate how the world works, that's when the anxiety about death, for instance, goes away.

kids and grandchildren like you, like doing the podcast, a lot of things I like doing, so I'd like to continue, but if I don't, that's okay too, that's fine. It's when you get to the aerial view and you appreciate how the world works, that's when the anxiety about death.

along with a lot of other anxieties. So you go to the doctor because you want to feel good. You don't want to slog through every day. And there people who have chronic pain and I feel terrible for these people. You you and I probably have pain most days one way the other. That's what happens as you get older. you know, chronic pain is terrible. I mean, it's debilitating and you can't really enjoy anything or appreciate anything or even do anything. So we go to the doctor to alleviate that. I think that's the primary piece and not so much for longevity, right, but to have

Right, but you know, the people, Walt Disney's of the world who wanted to live forever and decided to have themselves frozen and all of that kind of stuff.

that health span you're talking about.

So there are those people who really want to just keep going. And I guess what I'm getting from you is that shouldn't be the purpose. It shouldn't be just let's try to live as long as we can. But I suppose...

It's not that it shouldn't be, it's that I don't believe it is, but keep going.

Okay, then you don't believe it is. And that's where this whole, the view of this, the aerial view, which is why that's so significant and so important, in that it does have it, it's a medicine in a way. It takes a lot of the pain away, the pain of angst, the pain of anxiety, the pain of fear. And this magic pill, and I know it's not a magic pill, but in many respects it is, it's the pill of being able to look. at it from a different perspective and to have all of that sort of wash away. True?

It does. True. Absolutely true. It's the single, if I can do anything in this world, especially at this point in life, is to help as many people as I can understand that there is a new perspective, not a new perspective, a different perspective, the aerial view, and all those things you just mentioned are possible and will occur once you learn how to get there. But we can't get there until we understand a few other things like purpose, as we discussed today.

Right, and we'll leave it at that. This was great because it's important. It's absolutely important. My purpose now is to end the show and I will. The other thing on some more podcasts, want to tell you, you have a thing that you call it from selfish to selfless, from inward focus to outward focus. I want to explore that a little at a further time too, okay? Great, yes it is. Thank you, see you next time.

We will.

We will absolutely discuss that critically important. All right, thank you. See you next time.